I know these are pretty modern and some could consider it off-topic, so forgive me. I'm just curious how many of you guys out there have a Merlin system or collect Merlin phones. Personally, I really like the Merlins, I think they look better than most any other type of modern phone system. I recently managed to dig up an example of every color Merlin phone ever made except for white. I have Dark Blue, Burgandy, Orange(cinnibar, I believe they called it), Dark Gray, and Brown. If there's any interest I'll post a few pictures, otherwise I won't waste our megabytes :)
Also, we started with 410s and 820s and such. For those that don't know a 410 has 4 trunks and 10 extensions, an 820 has 8 trunks and 20 extensions. Then we moved on to a 1030/3070. Those can have standard telephone cards which work very nice as a simple intercom system with older phones. You have to supply a ringing generator, but that's pretty easy. I believe each card adds 10 standard phone ports. And they DO support pulse dialing.
Later-
---Eric
I have a working 410 system with several different black sets. Haven't started on the colors yet.
The AT&T Merlin handset has a surprising resemblance to the GPO-UK Trimphone (772) handset in terms of shape and overall size (and difficulty of balancing on one's shoulder : - ). See also the Trimphone topic for a funny story I posted about how I used to sell Panasonic switches competing against Merlin, based on that handset.
Nonetheless, the Merlin system & phones were high-quality material, particularly after they did away with the flat touch-membrane line keys and went to regular buttons. And KTS phones in color are always cool (Vodavi did that for a while: red, green, blue, etc.). It's possible that the wiring is compatible with Ethernet, so one could wire a place with multiple Ethernet jacks and then patch-panelize the installation.
So yeah I'd welcome a Merlin topic including photos.
I would like to see the colors. I did see a burgandy back in the day. It was in use at a downtown office.
I used to use a merlin system at work and I have a 410 system, tho I have never played with it.
I do have some spare oddball merlin phones.
I kick myself for not buying the Merlin Cordless phone when I had the chance.
Jim
I do have a clear volume control Merlin Type handset.
This is on a clear proto-type touch-matic. The touch matic is a lot like the touch matic "S" only 1/2 size (no speed-dial buttons)
It had speed dial , only not the seperate buttons.
Anyone care to post a pic?
Intrigued by the resemblance to a Trimhone.
Here is a pic of a typical Merlin phone.
Western Electric also used an exactly the same shape handset (but not the same electrically) for their Touch-A-Matic 10 phones. Attached is a pic from the Western Electric practice for this phone that very nicely illustrates the handset.
(The Touch-A-Matic 10 wall phone is shown, it was also available in a desk model.)
Thanks for that, looks a neat unit.
The handset is like a Trimphone with a bigger head and been on a diet.
Quote from: masstel on April 13, 2011, 06:28:45 PM
Here is a pic of a typical Merlin phone.
Western Electric also used an exactly the same shape handset (but not the same electrically) for their Touch-A-Matic 10 phones. Attached is a pic from the Western Electric practice for this phone that very nicely illustrates the handset.
(The Touch-A-Matic 10 wall phone is shown, it was also available in a desk model.)
Is the transmitter down at the mouth end, or up by the receiver using an acoustic horn like the Trimphone?
Exsqueeze me? The transmitter on the trimphone handset is WHERE? You're kidding!
On the small Western Electric handset, the transmitter is physically located down at the mouth end, as it should be.
And also, the handsets are NOT the same between Merlins and Touchamatics. The TAM handsets are much smaller on the transmitter end than the Merlin handsets are. The black Merlin 10 button phone in the photo is an HFAI-10.
A couple interesting notes I've discovered:
The silver trim pieces above and below the buttons on the HFAI-10s are generally silver "painted" plastic. On the earliest of Merlin phones those are actually made of Aluminum. The early sets also had a different style of button membrane(and button color, they were more green and the newer ones are grayer). Also, older handsets had a metal screen over the transmitter, newer ones have a "grill" molded into the handset plastic. My favorite feature on the older sets is the model number is stamped on the bottom of the phone in white paint along with "WESTERN ELECTRIC". I've handled probably a couple hundred Merlin phones and I've only ever seen two(and now have both) of the old ones with "green" buttons that are marked WE on the bottom. Both are burgandy sets and they're dated 1983.
I'll take some pictures of the colors and a few comparison shots between old and new sets.
And just in case... I want a white Merlin phone. If anyone out there has a nice one I'd be willing to trade a gray, brown, or burgandy one(your choice) for it. ...Although I have a feeling I'm going to end up feeling like Vern still looking for his Ivory 1554.
---Eric
The handset was not hollow like the trimphone.When I found a trimphone I could not believe the handset construction.
Robby
Quote from: masstel on April 13, 2011, 07:22:53 PM
Exsqueeze me? The transmitter on the trimphone handset is WHERE? You're kidding!
I am soooo not kidding.
(http://www.britishtelephones.com/pictures/handst10.jpg)
(http://www.britishtelephones.com/gpo/pictures/t712clear.jpg)
from
Bob's Telephone File (http://www.britishtelephones.com/t712.htm)This meant that putting your hand over the mouthpiece did NOT prevent confidential asides being heard by the distant party.
Quote from: ESalter on April 13, 2011, 07:46:04 PM
the handsets are NOT the same between Merlins and Touchamatics. The TAM handsets are much smaller on the transmitter end than the Merlin handsets are. The black Merlin 10 button phone in the photo is an HFAI-10.
Ah. I was wondering if I had assumed incorrectly on that point. I have never seen the two together. I stand corrected, thanks.
Quote from: rdelius on April 13, 2011, 08:13:21 PM
The handset was not hollow like the trimphone. When I found a trimphone I could not believe the handset construction.
Quote from: Owain on April 13, 2011, 08:31:07 PM
I am soooo not kidding.
Wow! Fascinating!
Quote from: ESalter on April 13, 2011, 07:46:04 PM
And also, the handsets are NOT the same between Merlins and Touchamatics.
The Merlin's Type R handset is shown in the ATT Practice 501-210-130.
The Touch A Matic's Type M handset is in BSP 501-210-110 (not currently in the TCI Library), but is also referenced in 503-400-100 and 503-400-200.
(Edited to correct typo in BSP.)
Added a photo reference at: http://www.paul-f.com/weHandsets.html#M (http://www.paul-f.com/weHandsets.html#M)
Well... like I said, the handsets are electrically incompatible with each other, so I'm not surprised they have different part numbers. However, I didn't know the TAM handset was smaller...
Quote from: masstel on April 13, 2011, 10:07:46 PM
Well... like I said, the handsets are electrically incompatible with each other, so I'm not surprised they have different part numbers. However, I didn't know the TAM handset was smaller...
I had no idea either until I had one of each type in my hands at the same time. They're remarkably similar in all respects(physically) except for that small transmitter "snout". There are also Merlin look-alike systems called System 25(I think). I don't have any of those if anyone does or knows of them, do they take the same handsets?
Here's a strange question, Merlins were first made in '83, I believe. Does anyone know what year they first start making the TAMs with the "M" style handsets?
I believe System 25 (and System 75) sets had K type handsets, squared off like the TAM handset but full-sized on both ends.
Here is the thread with the clear touchmatic. The touchmatic is reply 4.
Jim
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2346.msg31192#msg31192
(added later) oops!
Here? I see no "here" here...
Quote from: Owain on April 13, 2011, 08:31:07 PM
Quote from: masstel on April 13, 2011, 07:22:53 PM
Exsqueeze me? The transmitter on the trimphone handset is WHERE? You're kidding!
I am soooo not kidding.
(http://www.britishtelephones.com/pictures/handst10.jpg)
(http://www.britishtelephones.com/gpo/pictures/t712clear.jpg)
from Bob's Telephone File (http://www.britishtelephones.com/t712.htm)
This meant that putting your hand over the mouthpiece did NOT prevent confidential asides being heard by the distant party.
Yes, its most amusing watching 70's UK TV series where someone covered the mouthpiece to mask the TX. LOL
I have a 2-tone green one sitting right here behind me.
When connected to Panasonic TVA-50 PBX, all three ringer settings have a "start out soft and get louder" effect. The first cycle of ringing from the PBX doesn't seem to ring on the telephone, which is a minor drawback. Also the perceived volume of the ring is highly sensitive to what the phone is sitting on. When it's sitting on soft cloth it's fairly quiet. On a hard desk surface it's as loud as a 746. This due to the acoustics of the tweeter.
How did Western Electric expect you to hold a Merlin or especially Touch-a-Matic handset on your shoulder? Or did they have some other idea in mind, for example did WE continue to think of handsets as being held in the hand? And is there some chance they were influenced by the Trimphone, as they were by the 332 being the inspiration for the 302?
Since we were on the subject, I got my three touch-a-matics together for a family photo. I think this is a really neat set.
According to the Bell System practice for this phone, they were available in Ivory, Green, Yellow, White, Brown and Rust. My Brown, Rust and Ivory sets are shown below.
THe green is probably the hardest one to find. The BSP list these as a touch matic "S"
JMO,
Jim
Here is the link for my touch a matic.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2346.msg31192#msg31192
reply 4
Jim
Quote from: Jim S. on April 14, 2011, 01:23:24 PM
THe green is probably the hardest one to find.
Yes, the Bell System practice dated July 1982 lists the Green and White colors for this set as MD (manufacture discontinued). So, they stopped making those colors at some point, making them rarer.
That clear touch-a-matic prototype is AWESOME.
I agree, that clear TAM is neat as heck! I like how it has a little beige swirled in, actually. And Dave, Cool picture of your TAM family. I believe we only have an orange and an ivory.
It must not be the System 25/75 I'm thinking of that looked like Merlin. I don't see them too often, they look just like Merlin sets except the button field is entirely different. I seem to remember they had a two digit LED or LCD display at the top as well.
---Eric
I couldn't find any good pictures. Perhaps it's only the System 75 set that has the full-sized K style handset...
I did find a nice picture of a typical Merlin phone, though.
That is the later model with the plastic stand. The early sets had a cast metal stand.
------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you like the clear TAM. I think the latest date on it is 1982.
I think this was a self contained dialer phone, however It may of been confusing to program , so they created the "S"imple, with assigned #'s.
Just a guess.
If I put a stand-alone TAM "speed-dialer" next to the phone , It sure looks like a "S" set.
---------------------------------------------------------
I have always assumed my set was a proto-type . Does anyone have any pertinent paper?
Jim
Merlin was the only other key system in its day with dual-color LEDs, aside from Panasonic. I'd venture to guess the Merlin LEDs were just a bit more visible under bright light. It was definitely a worthy competitor to Panasonic, unlike today's nasty Cisco phones where the Hold button is buried in contextual menus unless you pay a yearly fee for the feature pack that allows it to be on the first screen.
Touch-a-Matic had a role in a science fiction movie. I don't recall the title, but in this film, there was another Earth on the opposite side of the Sun, and we had an "exchange mission" to swap astronauts. Upon landing, the Earth 1 astronaut discovered that everything on Earth 2 was backward. In one scene he's at the house of his opposite number from Earth 2, having met his wife there, who is just like his wife here. Then he goes to make a phone call.
Touch-a-Matic. Backwards, with the handset on the right. Clearly done by using some kind of mirror on the camera while filming. I thought, oh that's clever, can't just use a regular wall phone because it would be symmetrical, but the handset on the wrong side makes it more clear that everything is backward.
I'd be interested in someone starting a topic on phones seen in film, particularly science fiction. And who can forget the videophone in _2001: Space Odyssey_?
BTW: I posted a pic from 2001 and discussed it on this forum here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=312.msg54589
Quote from: Jim S. on April 14, 2011, 11:58:29 PM
That is the later model with the plastic stand. The early sets had a cast metal stand.
I always wondered if the metal stands were early, so thanks, Jim for that little nugget of info. I work for a school system and have for 26 years, so I worked back when these Merlin systems were still in use. We had some spares that were removed because a system got hit by lightning and you never saw a happier secretary than the one I sent the metal Merlin stand to replace the plastic one she had. I think she baked me a chocolate pie, she was so overjoyed!
The Merlin systems were installed in the schools that were in Southern Bell territory, which makes sense. They worked well in their time and always looked high-tech, I thought. With the upper model Cisco phones we have now, when the stand breaks, we have to replace the entire phone! Luckily the cheaper ones don't have stands like that.
I have always assumed the metal stands were early (same for the metal grill handsets).
It could be that they had standard and "hard use".
I do not know. This is/was my assumption. Now I am not sure.
Jim
I don't know about the stands 100%, but I can say all of the early sets I have came with metal stands. Maybe coincidence, who knows?
---Eric
OK. I was really curious about this, and never having had the opportunity to see them both together to compare, I really wanted to see for myself, how the touch-a-matic S telephone's handset compares to the Merlin handset.
So, I got a Merlin handset off eBay (reconditioned Merlin handsets are really cheap).
Below is some pictures of them together.
You can see that while the two handsets are very similar, the Merlin handset, as has been stated, is bigger.
But, even in dimensions where the handsets are very similar, the length of the receiver and the width of the transmitter, for example, the Merlin handset is still bigger by a very small amount.
Fun stuff! :)
I didn't realize they were bigger all the way around, I just thought the transmitter was different. That's really neat to see them next to eachother like that to see all the differences.
I'm sorry I haven't gotten pictures of my Merlins yet, work has been keeping me super busy and I have all the colored phones packed up. Anyway, I haven't forgotten, I'll get them taken and posted as soon as I get a free minute to do so.
---Eric
So to recap, the brown one is an M-type handset, the black one is an R-type handset, and the one found on some design line sets and very late 2500s is a K-type?
Quote from: bingster on April 21, 2011, 09:39:24 PM
So to recap, the brown one is an M-type handset, the black one is an R-type handset, and the one found on some design line sets and very late 2500s is a K-type?
Well said.
The Design Line used a variety of handsets including, K, L, N, Trimline and several apparently unlettered specialty handsets.
http://www.paul-f.com/weDesignLine.html#Celebrity
The N also looks similar to the M and R handsets.
Probably the Merlin handset was built more ruggedly inside to withstand the heavier usage in a business environment. The Touch A Matic would have been designed less ruggedly in order to keep it affordable as a phone the subscribers could buy outright. I can't think of any other reason WE would have issued two subtly different handset types like that, rather than using one model uniformly.
J.Sowers, re. broken stands on upper-model Cisco phones: how often do they break like that? For instance if you have an office with 100 of that model of Cisco phone in it, how many stands do you expect to break in an average year? Any other news re. breakage of those phones?
Quote from: GG on April 22, 2011, 05:20:49 AM
J.Sowers, re. broken stands on upper-model Cisco phones: how often do they break like that? For instance if you have an office with 100 of that model of Cisco phone in it, how many stands do you expect to break in an average year? Any other news re. breakage of those phones?
We have maybe 500 or so of those upper model Cisco phones, with an integrated adjustable stand that's all plastic and kind of flimsy. Some of them are wall-mounted, so they won't suffer the broken stand when somebody leans hard on the phone. The rest are in offices where we need a full duplex speakerphone. I'd say we've had maybe 4 or 5 phones with broken stands over 6 years, so it's a small failure rate. It's not an epidemic, but we do have to replace the phone, which gets expensive.
We're a school system with about 2500 teachers and 90% of the classrooms have the small cheaper model phone with a removable desk stand that doesn't break and the classrooms that do have the more expensive phones have them mounted on the wall.
The handsets also suffer when dropped, but not to any great degree. One of our techs has figured out how to take the handset apart and repair the damage when the elements pop loose. We also have extra handsets from the many, many sets that have been killed by lightning. Lightning is our number one problem. Our administrative office ethernet network was struck by lightning twice last summer. It took out switches, phones, network printers and computers plugged into phones. I'm beginning to think NC is the most lightning-prone place in the US.
To get back to the Merlin, we had at least two Merlin systems also hit by lightning and it killed the main unit. That was when it was rented from the phone company (Bell South) so I imagine that was covered somehow. But the lease and moves/adds/changes from the phone company were costly, as was the long distance (we had two area codes and five phone companies in our county then).
Quote from: GG on April 15, 2011, 11:29:13 AMI'd be interested in someone starting a topic on phones seen in film, particularly science fiction. And who can forget the videophone in _2001: Space Odyssey_?
There is a very large thread (20 pages and counting) on "Old Phones in Movies" complete with LOTS of screen shots. I'm an advocate of keeping topics in existing threads rather than starting new ones on the same topic constantly so I don't know that a specific "Phones in Science Fiction movies" is particularly needed. But that's just my opinion!!
Here's the "Old Phones in Movies" thread:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=312.285
Terry
Hey Eric,
I have one white (or slightly off-white) 34 button (Z7305S01B 87SP06) that is in "like new" condition if you were interested to complete your collection. I actually still have some 820D systems that I service in the field. They seem to be mostly in my auto mechanic customers for some reason. I try to get them to upgrade.. but they ask "why, it works just fine for me" I really can't blame them... those old Merlin systems are bullet proof and cheap to maintain.
I also carry a full compliment of all the old Merlin phones, handsets, modules, cards, control units ...ect. If anyone needs anything just let me know.
Aaron
JSowers: thanks; That's good info; Cisco is a major presence in the Bay Area here so it's useful to know. NC & lightning: Ouch, painful repairs. Hopefully you haven't been getting any of the recent tornados. Various weather experts are saying this is really unusual, 25% of a year's worth of tornados in the first month of the season, something along those lines. We don't have much lightning here, for which I'm very thankful.
Everwood: good to see someone has that material in stock; nice to see a white one there.
Not to bring this topic back from the dead- but I just received a Merlin 410 and a pile of Merlin phones for free from a local car dealership. I was wondering what had to be done to make a rotary phone work on this system.
I have feature cards one and two, however card one causes the warning light to come on and the phones to stop working. I assume this is why they replaced the system. I plugged the second card into my record player and had Frank Sinatra swooning when I placed calls on hold, which was amazing!
Standard modular plugs will fit in the holes (quite properly it seems) however I just get a buzzing on the model 500 I plugged in. The other sets seem to work fine.
Hi
You CANNOT use any thing other than a melin phone on the 206/410
This is NOT a pbx or a hybrid system.
Just a 4 line by 10 station System.
The phones requires 4 pair (8) wires to each phone.
Since they need 4 pair/8 conductor set cords you then have to figure out if they use 568A data, 568B data or USOC cords. I would bet USOC since the system likely predates the 568A/B data standards.
USOC standard cords quite likely have the usual set cord colored leads (green, red, black, yellow, white, blue, brown, slate) and has the first pair in the centre of the plug, and then the subsequent pairs continue to be split one lead to each side around the first pair. The same as a normal two pair set cord but with two more pairs. 568A and B data standards are different again and typically the data cords have the 4 pair cable pair colors (blue, orange, green & brown) in the cord.
Terry
I'd have to check but I don't think a 103A baseboard jack is USOC.
Thanks, guys.
Quote from: poplar1 on June 03, 2013, 06:11:32 PM
I'd have to check but I don't think a 103A baseboard jack is USOC.
What is a 103A jack? If for the Merlin system, what else would it be unless it is completely different from normal RJ standard jacks?
Terry
The Western Electric 8P8C data wiring scheme (TIA 568B) is the most prevalent in the United States and was used with the early Merlin systems. The 568B scheme also provides for backward compatibility of USOC 6P/6C pin-outs when it was desired to use the data cabling for regular telephone usage.
However, TIA 568A will also work since the only difference between the two standards is the swapping of the orange and green conductors of pairs two (pins 1-2) and three (pins 3-6). In other words, all of the pins are wired straight through, just with conductors that have different colors.
Here is a visual representation of the two schemes:
http://www.utm.edu/staff/leeb/568/568.htm
Wouldn't it be 568A that is somewhat backwards compatible as it has the blue AND the orange pairs in the correct location where as 568B only has the blue pair in the correct location?
568A seems to be the most prevalent in Canada. As you say G-man, it doesn't matter unless one end is tied down on blocks of some sort.
We recently had a whole bunch of 4 line KSU-less office phones to install in different locations. Many of the locations were installed on existing 4 pair runs originally used for data. Most of our installers knew enough to cut patch cords in half to plug into the data jack and they put double surface jacks on the cut end with 2 pairs to each jack. These phones had to have 2 - 2 pair set cords. All worked except I got most of the repair calls once some customers found line 2 and 3 reversed where the installer didn't notice the patch cords he cut were color coded for 568B as our data jacks are virtually always 568A.
Terry
I am using the Merlin 820D at home rite now with 1 Comcast voice line and 2addon lines from an old sun rocket VoIP box. It's voice service is provided by "whistle phone" and I had to figure out how to configure it myself. They give me free calls to 800 numbers and other whistle customers. Plus free 20 min to call any US number. Its very limited but its free to play with and I get a real phone number out of the deal.
I have a Merlin 10btn hi-fi phone on my desk and 5btn in the kitchen. And maybe about 4 other old Merlin phones that don't work or have issues. One receiver has the metal grill like you describe.. I'd like to give some of this stuff away if anyone has an interest in it.
I also have an older 410 with feature package 1 or 2. It redlighted on me a few times so I upgraded to the 820D. Then I upgraded to the Partner 103G4 and fell in love. So many options and I can finally connect any standard phones and dial 9 to get out and if your using system phones caller ID does work.
:)
I'd like to start using my Partner system again but the power supply on mine went and I'm having trouble finding a new/used one for a reasonable price. If anybody knows of one please please let me know. They go for about 70 bucks on eBay and that's a little high for me at the moment.
But yea I've been a big fan of the old black n gray Merlin phones for years. Love the red+green line lights and ringer tones and music on hold. Still missing my partner system so if I transfer a call to another phone the person on hold hears the ringing on their end too.
I'd post pictures if anyone is interested in viewing my messy setup or the stuff I need to part with. Let me know.
-DaveCT
Bringing this one back from the dead...
I just bought a decent sized lot of these off eBay (I have the system and I've been a collector for years). All but one phone is working. It's a 10 button membrane phone. I took it apart and don't see a obvious cause.
Anyone in here know why it wouldn't be working? Any common causes?
Quote from: FrankieD on December 05, 2022, 09:39:27 PMBringing this one back from the dead...
Great to reread some of these old threads. Lots of good info to be found using the CRPF search button. :)
Quote from: FrankieD on December 05, 2022, 09:39:27 PM...I just bought a decent sized lot of these off eBay... ...All but one phone is working.
Anyone in here know why it wouldn't be working?...
Could you provide more info, and photos.
Quote from: FABphones on December 06, 2022, 04:41:50 AMGreat to reread some of these old threads. Lots of good info to be found using the CRPF search button. :)
Could you provide more info, and photos.
Yeah, lots of good stuff. I've managed to get myself out of a lot of jams with this forum!!
So, as far as the 10 button phone goes, when I plug it in, it doesn't turn on at all. It just plays dead... It's one of the membrane sets; which are failure prone, unfortunately. They really are cool phones. I just wanted to know if anyone knows of any common causes. I've taken it apart cleaned and reconnected all of the ribbon cables and still nothing. There is one capacitor with what looks like melted wrapping. I'm not sure if that's due to age or something actually wrong.
Quote from: FrankieD on December 06, 2022, 05:38:00 PM..There is one capacitor with what looks like melted wrapping. I'm not sure if that's due to age or something actually wrong...
Hi, I don't have this kind of phone with a capacitor, but I know that in electronics, an old and most likely dry capacitor, it no longer has the same value. However, if you decide to change it, put one of the same value or slightly higher, but never, ever put one below the indicated value.
The membrane sets had problems with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge).
Did you try reversing tip & ring? These early tone dials were polarity sensitive.
Quote from: HarrySmith on December 07, 2022, 07:46:07 AMDid you try reversing tip & ring? These early tone dials were polarity sensitive.
I don't think they are DTMF (Touch-Tone) dials. You have to have an adapter to use single line phones such as 2500s, at least on the old Merlin KSUs. Maybe the Partner sets produce true Touch-Tones, since just like the Panasonic KX-T 61610 Key System, you can mix proprietary multi-line phones and single line phones, even on the same station port.
Doesn't look like much activity regarding the Merlin systems. I am using daily a Merlin 1030 in my office and a Merlin 820D (a/k/a "Merlin Plus") system at home. The latter recently replaced a Merlin 820 which expired from old age. Presently working on a ringdown system to connect the two Merlin systems by private line.
One thing that I would be grateful for is any information on the power supply for the Merlin 820. I have two with bad power supplies, but cannot find a source for replacement, repair of a schematic. With the latter I would attempt repair myself. Or if anyone needs Merlin 820 modules or parts, other than the power supply, let me know.