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WE 191G - original or non-original.

Started by Russ Kirk, February 02, 2019, 07:19:27 PM

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Russ Kirk

OK payphone experts, I need your input.  A friend of mine knew I collect phones and gave me a couple items on Friday. One is the Western Electric 191G and the second is an aluminum 22" '64 building sign.

I got the payphone open without the 10H key.  I just ordered a key from Phoneco.  The understand the phone works, however I have not confirmed. I also understand that many payphones over the years have been extensively modified and I have not doubt this one is not in all original 1949 condition. 

I have two questions;
Does it have all the correct WE parts or a frankenphone?
Can I drill out the pop rivets holding the lower lock in place?

When I opened the phone a dime fell out,  so I am 10 cents ahead!
- Russ Kirk
ATCA & TCI

Key2871

Both look nice, the 191 looks to have been changed, missing the relay, and a induction coil is in place, would have used a sub set for ringer and network" connection.
The upper has modern wiring, not cloth covered.
The sign looks nice, that is a money shot right there..
That's my thought.
KEN

poplar1

191G originally had a 101A or 101B induction coil inside, roughly in the area shown.  However, it was mounted on a metal plate. So only a separate 531A ringer (or equivalent) was needed.

The chrome hook and chrome instruction card holder are both too new. They would have been black, and the instruction card holder would not have a curved top.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

RotarDad

Russ - Your payphone has a cast iron backboard and the non-pull bucket vault consistent with a 191G.  You can see the old mounting tabs for the dual coil relay as well.  These 191s were commonly refurbished to essentially a 233G back in the day ( single -coil hopper/relay, removal of 101B coil/mount and replacement of upper with a 233-type unit (later cast dial shroud, coin return button, etc).  Yours also has the 4 security stud holes/bushings drilled into the backplate.

Then it was altered for home use when removed from service (coil added to backplate, ringer added where single-coil relay used to be, aftermarket wiring/plug between upper and backplate, etc.).  The relay on the coin chute is missing as well.

I believe that vault door is AE unit, not WE.  You certainly can drill out those ridiculous pop rivets.  I hope threads are not damaged so you can replace the proper screws.    Still a nice looking payphone on the outside.
Paul

Payphone installer

#5
It's all wrong, don't buy it.

Payphone installer

Worst part of all is the rivets in the vault door holding in the lock,that should be illegal.

Payphone installer

Just for education purposes 101 mounted on backboard means they drilled holes in it which is a shame. Pile up for the switch hook is the old one, chute in the upper is wrong,it had a swing out chute. Hopper is wrong it had a hopper for a two coil relay which this one does not.

Payphone installer

191 never had a coin return button. The two plates above and below the coin return are repro from phoneco.

Payphone installer

Swithhook arm is off a 233G which takes a spring where the small circle is but the pile up never required a spring. There is nothing 191 at all about this phone. Value 125.00 as a phone sold to the public in a antique mall. Not a collectors piece.

Payphone installer

Vault door is a early W/E not A/E check the lock see what number is on the top like 10L? That might be a nice piece. Aluminum Bell is a nice piece. It's the real deal often run 175.00 to 275.00 range.

Russ Kirk

Many thanks to all for adding your input.  While I did suspect it is a Phoneco refurbishment, it is still a nice phone to display and use. Thanks again...
- Russ Kirk
ATCA & TCI

robert_m

#12
PayphoneInstaller is correct. This appears to be a cobbled up 191. I'm not an expert but he and others are. It is fine if you just want a cobbled up item but as far as authentic, I agree, I would not pay $50 for it.

FABphones

#13
Quote from: robert_m on February 07, 2019, 02:44:44 AM
PayphoneInstaller is correct. This appears to be a cobbled up 191. I'm not an expert but he and others are. It is fine if you just want a cobbled up item but as far as authentic, I agree, I would not pay $50 for it.

I think Russ said it was a gift. I would be happy, it is a kind gesture. It will display nicely, and the sign is a great addition.

Plus we have learnt a bit more about payphones from this thread. So all is good.  :)
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Russ62

Hi, If the tags are silvery color and look like they were electric welded to housing on the edges they are probably original and had the paint buffed off which I have seen before. I have seen only the Bell System tag in Phoneco catalogs and it is brass. In either case take a small hobby brush like plastic car modelers use for details and with a little semi gloss black enamel  paint over the tags. Then after the paint dries a few hours take a wood kitchen match, cut the head off at an angle and use flat pointed edge to rub the still slightly soft paint off the raised top edges of lettering on the coin return tag only. Also You can print out a more authentic, less cutesy 10 cent prepay top sign card on card stock from some websites, possibly even ours. As an optional step you could obtain an original or reproduction metal plate to mount the induction coil on, taking care that coil isn't positioned so that it hits the coin shute when the button is pushed. This would make the inside look better although it would still have the later hopper. I have come across more than 1 still numbered 191G phones not PhonecoInc refurbed that had the later top, possibly exchanged in the field. This would make them equivalent to 196Gs.                         Russell