WIRING A WESTERN ELECTRIC 52AB CANDLESTICK

[gands-antiques]

Thanks a lot for the improved diagram.  I have been reviewing the improved diagram this evening and I still have some questions.

I have many years of experience with blue print interpretation as a design draftsman and as a jet engine tooling designer but minimal electrical drawing/symbol experience.   

Several questions I still have about the improved diagram....

684A subset...
Is there a wiring diagram for just the 684A subset?
Is there a way to determine where the 4 capacitor wires should be connected to?  I can't tell which wire goes where.
Do the ringer wires connect to K & C terminals

Phone...
Is the yellow/green junction and red/red junction the same as the single phenol block?

Inside in the dashed circle around the dial wiring is a jumper from R to BB.

Thanks,
Gary

[tallguy58]

The condenser wires are marked with the 2MF symbol and the similar one above it. The condenser should be marked on the end somewhere.

The ringer does go to K C.

[unbeldi]

I suspect that you have a 194A condenser.  Please verify that it is the same.

I found a picture of the terminals in my archives and marked the terminals with their color names.

As you can see in this one the colors are impossible to tell as well.

[unbeldi]

Is there a way to determine where the 4 capacitor wires should be connected to?  I can't tell which wire goes where.
Do the ringer wires connect to K & C terminals

Yes.   ringer wires to K and C.

Phone...
Is the yellow/green junction and red/red junction the same as the single phenol block?

You mean the light green/dark green junction?  Yes, both are on the phenol plate.

Inside in the dashed circle around the dial wiring is a jumper from R to BB.

Yes, it is very thin and can be overlooked as you did. I enhanced it with an addition black jumper.

[unbeldi]

Here is a diagram for a 1950s 684BA, which the same as a 684A.
This came from Catalog No. 10.

[gands-antiques]

Thanks for the condenser picture with wire references and responses to my other questions.  Will I need a wiring diagram for the network connections?

I do have a 194A condenser. 

Thanks,
Gary

[gands-antiques]

Wow, the subset diagram is great.  Thanks a lot!


I  forgot to ask...Is there also a jumper between Y and BK inside the dashed circle around the dial.
There is some sort of solid line in that area


Thanks,
Gary

[gands-antiques]

I replaced the network and terminal block on the subset because the terminals were lose on both items.  The subset rings now on the test set but it only rings when the red line cord is connected to L2 and the green line cord is connected to GND??

I have checked, double and triple checked the wiring locations on the subset and phone but the phone does not have a dial tone, it will not receive calls or dial out??

Any ideas??


Thanks,
Gary

[Phonesrfun]

Wow, the subset diagram is great.  Thanks a lot!


I  forgot to ask...Is there also a jumper between Y and BK inside the dashed circle around the dial.
There is some sort of solid line in that area


Thanks,
Gary

No.  There is no jumper there.  when the diagram was Photoshopped to remove the confusing extra part for the filter, the diagonal line to BK shown inside the dashed line for the dial circle was not whited out.

If you had a jumper between Y and BK the phone would not dial out.

Let me gather a few thoughts and give you the terminal-to-terminal wiring you will need.  I read through the thread, but I don't recall seeing a picture of the hook switch itself.  Can you post a picture of that?

[gands-antiques]

Thanks a lot Bill. 

I didn't put a jumper between Y and BK because I couldn't tell for sure if the drawing indicated it.

I just added some pictures of the hook switch.


Thanks again,
Gary

[Phonesrfun]

Wiring of a 51AL deskstand to 684A subset.

In reading the thread, I would like to point out a couple of observations to keep in mind.  First of all, the 51AL deskstand (Candlestick) is a sidetone telephone.  Sidetone was an earlier version of the phone that did not allow for a certain amount of noise cancellation.  The antisidetone circuit was developed a little later which had some (minimal) amount of sidetone (noise) cancellation.

Here, we are connecting a sidetone deskstand to an antisidetone subset.  That is not really a problem, and a lot of that was done even by the phone company.  A little change in wiring is needed to make the two entirely compatible with each other.  That is why there has been discussions about the standard wiring and making changes to the standard wiring.

Also, the subset and the deskstand are very much all part of the same circuit, and needed to be connected together.  The fact that the subset went on the wall and the deskstand went on the desk was due to the limitations as to how large a phone would be (at the time) if all the circuitry were self contained.  It was not until the design of the 302 in the late 30's that we saw a combined set.

All that is just a bit of history.

Let's work our way back from the deskstand to the wall.

Deskstand Receiver
•   White wire goes to W on the dial
•   Green wire goes to GN on the separate phenolic connector in the base

Transmitter
•   Black wire to BK on the dial
•   Double Yellow wire to YY on the Hookswitch

Hookswitch
•   Terminal YY has the Double Yellow wire from Transmitter connected to it
•   Terminal R has a wire connected to it that connects to terminal R on the phenolic connector in the base
•   Terminal BB has a double blue wire that connects to BB on the dial

Dial
•   Y has the yellow deskstand cord connected to it
•   BK has the black transmitter wire connected to it
•   R is jumpered with BB and has no other wire connected to it
•   BB is jumpered with R and also has the double blue wire coming from the hookswitch connected to it
•   W has the white receiver wire connected to it

Desk Stand 3-conductor cord (Inside the deskstand)
•   Yellow wire to Y on the dial
•   Red wire to terminal R on the phenolic terminal in the base of the phone
•   Green wire to terminal GN on the phenolic terminal in the base of the phone

That's it for inside the phone (Deskstand)

Inside the 684A subset:

Ringer Circuit
Ringer red to C on the 101A induction coil
Ringer Black to terminal K on the terminal pad
Condenser Slate also to terminal K on the terminal pad
Condenser Yellow to terminal L2Y on the 101A induction coil

Talk Circuit
•   The 2mF talk condenser should be connected between L1 and BK on the terminal strip; Red to L1 and Black to BK

Desk Stand 3-conductor cord (Inside the subset)
•   Yellow wire  to terminal GN on the 101A Induction Coil
•   Green wire to terminal BK on the terminal strip
•   Red wire to L2Y on the 101A induction coil

Line cord to the wall
•   Red to C on the 101A induction coil
•   Green to L2Y on the 101A induction coil

Further notes:
The line cord from the wall does not connect one side to L1;  Rather it connects to C on the induction coil with this modified connection
Nothing will connect to terminal R on the 101A induction coil
Nothing will connect to GND on the terminal strip inside the subset.

It is sometimes difficult to tell which leads are which on the 194A dual condenser.  Looking at the photo provided, you can see the 194A COND stamped near the top edge with 2MF stamped off to the right.  Then there are 4 terminals.  Reading from left to right, top to bottom. The 2MF talk section is at the top with black being on the left, and red being on the right.  The 1 MF ringing section is the lower two connectors with slate being on the left and yellow being on the right.

Lastly, these fabric covered wires had a tendency over the years to not only fade, but also outright change to indistinguishable colors.  Condenser wires seem to be the worse for that.  When in doubt, you can always ask about that.  Good luck.

[gands-antiques]

Thanks a lot Bill.   I really appreciate your help.

I will let you know how it goes after I make the changes.


Thanks,
Gary

[gands-antiques]

The phone is working now. All functions are working properly. 

Thanks to everyone who helped with troubleshooting the phone.


Thanks,
Gary 

[Phonesrfun]

You're welcome

[Sargeguy]

Here is a 152-AB I just finished.  I was going to put it up on eBay but I think I'll keep it.  It has a nice NOS cord and 4H dial and I don't think it would do as well as a 151-AL.  Besides, it's a buyers market on eBay these days.