Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Switching => Key Systems (Electronic, 1A2 etc) => Panasonic (PBX) Key Systems => Topic started by: Dave on March 01, 2018, 07:37:43 PM

Title: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 01, 2018, 07:37:43 PM
Hi all

I have been looking for a way to get past the two rotary dial phones with a battery and a resistor intercom for a couple of weeks. I have all these lovely Western Electric phones, and while I do still use a landline with a 500 here and a Princess there, I want to be able to use more of them as a in-home intercom system.

I started by looking at Viking line simulators, but after reading awhile found out they probably won't ring my old electro-mechanical phone ringers. Scratch Viking.

Then I read about a Teltone TLS-4. That seemed like a likely candidate. Then I came here and read about 308s and 616s. Hmmm!

It seems too good to be true. A box that will allow me to continue to use my landline plus let me play intercom king. Here's what I think I know. Would someone please tell me where I'm wrong in any of these 7 statements.

1. A 308/616 will let me continue to use my old phones on my existing landline as normal.
2. A 308/616 will let me hook up other of my old phones to use as a 8 / 16 extension in-house intercom system.
3. I can have it connected to do both of the above at the same time.
4. A 308/616 has the proper voltage and frequency to ring my electro-mechanical ringers with at least the strength of REN 1.
5. I can pick up a 500 in my office and ring the electro-mechanical ringers of a wall phone in the kitchen by keying in the ext #.
6. I can run phone line through the house, outbuildings, patio, etc and just wire the middle two connectors (R&G) of any RJ-11s I use.
7. I will be amazed that this works so well that I'll wonder why anybody spends the money it takes to buy a TLS-4.

Do I have all of that right?

Thanks in advance.

Dave


Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on March 01, 2018, 08:10:19 PM
1. Yep
2. Yep
3. Yep
4. Yep
5. Yep
6. Yep
7. Very much yep...  ;D
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 01, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
Oh, wait, I thought of another one.

8.  I can as easily dial an extension with my rotary phones as I can key them in with a push button phone.

Yes?

Dave
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on March 01, 2018, 10:21:02 PM
Yep, on the north american Panasonics, it's 11 thru 18 or 26 (308/616) to dial other extensions (UK ones start at 21 thru 36), dial 9 for an outside line, or dial 81 thru 83 or 86 to choose a specific outside line... :)
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: AE_Collector on March 01, 2018, 11:02:59 PM
As for #6, I am always trying to do things once and be covered forever! Doesn't usually work but I keep trying.

I try to convince people running 2 Orr 4 pair runs to install double jacks on the end so you can also send the CO phone line to each location terminated on a jack. Why would you need that, you can dial 9 on any phone to get the CO line. So you can plug in an answering machine or a Call Display box at any location. Or plug in a more conventional telephone when someone is visiting who you can't be bothered to explain how it works yet again (parents).

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=102.0

Terry
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2018, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: twocvbloke on March 01, 2018, 10:21:02 PM
Yep, on the north american Panasonics, it's 11 thru 18 or 26 (308/616) to dial other extensions (UK ones start at 21 thru 36), dial 9 for an outside line, or dial 81 thru 83 or 86 to choose a specific outside line... :)

There's something I didn't know. Am I to understand that the 616 only allows 9 extensions (11 - 18 & 26) out of 16 total extensions to call other extensions? Or am I misinterpreting what you wrote?
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Babybearjs on March 02, 2018, 01:46:08 AM
 ;D ;D I've got a 207C 1A1 intercom with 9 active stations.... My roommate loves it.... always buzzing me in the front room to ask a question or something else.... will come in real handy when I get the workshop cleaned up and running again! good luck with yours!
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Owain on March 02, 2018, 05:00:31 AM
Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2018, 01:37:39 AM
There's something I didn't know. Am I to understand that the 616 only allows 9 extensions (11 - 18 & 26) out of 16 total extensions to call other extensions? Or am I misinterpreting what you wrote?

Yes, the 308 has 8 extensions 11-18, the 616 has 16 extensions 11-26
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on March 02, 2018, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2018, 01:37:39 AM
There's something I didn't know. Am I to understand that the 616 only allows 9 extensions (11 - 18 & 26) out of 16 total extensions to call other extensions? Or am I misinterpreting what you wrote?

Minor misinterpretation, 8 extensions for the 308, 16 for 616, so starts at 11, and ends on 18 or 26 for 308 or 616 respectively... :)
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2018, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: twocvbloke on March 02, 2018, 01:00:23 PM
Minor misinterpretation, 8 extensions for the 308, 16 for 616, so starts at 11, and ends on 18 or 26 for 308 or 616 respectively... :)

I understand now.

Something that's still not clear - these systems recognize pulse as well as tone?
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on March 02, 2018, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2018, 03:06:27 PMthese systems recognize pulse as well as tone?

Yep... :)
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2018, 09:41:28 PM
Fabulous.

I don't have crystal balls, but I suspect there is a large plastic box with the Panasonic name on it in my future.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on March 02, 2018, 11:01:09 PM
It's an inevitable purchase for most collectors, heck, I have both a 308 and 616, though the 308 was a mercy purchase as I wanted to save it from the bin... :)
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: oldguy on March 03, 2018, 12:04:29 AM
I also have both the 308 & 616. Get the 616, the 308 has polarity issues with WE2500s.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 03, 2018, 09:44:24 AM
That's good to know. I think I have one beige 2500.

I've been looking at  this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-Refurbished-KX-T61610/112553306276?hash=item1a34b328a4:g:J3AAAOSw9GhYlL5O). Anyone know this guy or dealt with him before?
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: paul-f on March 03, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Dave on March 01, 2018, 07:37:43 PM
7. I will be amazed that this works so well that I'll wonder why anybody spends the money it takes to buy a TLS-4.

Even though collectors are often tempted to use the TLS-n products as an intercom or local PBX, they were not designed for that purpose. As has been stated, real PBX products are much better when you plan to use the phones as an intercom or connected to a CO line.

The TSL products are far superior to a PBX for their intended uses. It's a lot easier to carry one to a remote location and set up a demonstration, than to try it with a Panasonic 616. I have two 616s and several TLS models and have tried it both ways.

From the TLS-5 manual:



The TLS-5 Telephone Line Simulator offers a convenient means for setting up
temporary "telephone line" connections to demonstrate or test equipment
where actual central office lines are not easily available. It provides four
simulated lines, two "talk paths" or connections, and an audio interface port,
making the TLS-5 a versatile device for a variety of applications including:

· Demonstrating or testing telecommunications devices such as
telephone sets, fax machines, and modems. Two simultaneous,
independent conversations can be set up over the four lines.

· Playing prerecorded presentations over a line when the telephone
handset is lifted (for example, at trade show or museum displays).

· As a teaching aid with the audio port configured to allow monitoring
and/or recording of a telephone conversation (for example, when
teaching children to use "9-1-1").

· Testing telephone or key system installations.

· Caller ID and other CLASS features.



Try that with your 616!
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: oldguy on March 03, 2018, 12:22:55 PM
That seems to be the best price out there now. They have programming phones for them (see threat at the top of this section for phones that work) but the default programming works for most situations. After you get your unit, you can shop for a good priced. There are also downloadable manuals in the same thread. You will have fun with this.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 03, 2018, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: paul-f on March 03, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
Even though collectors are often tempted to use the TLS-n products as an intercom or local PBX, they were not designed for that purpose. As has been stated, real PBX products are much better when you plan to use the phones as an intercom or connected to a CO line.

The TSL products are far superior to a PBX for their intended uses. It's a lot easier to carry one to a remote location and set up a demonstration, than to try it with a Panasonic 616. I have two 616s and several TLS models and have tried it both ways.

From the TLS-5 manual:



The TLS-5 Telephone Line Simulator offers a convenient means for setting up
temporary "telephone line" connections to demonstrate or test equipment
where actual central office lines are not easily available. It provides four
simulated lines, two "talk paths" or connections, and an audio interface port,
making the TLS-5 a versatile device for a variety of applications including:

· Demonstrating or testing telecommunications devices such as
telephone sets, fax machines, and modems. Two simultaneous,
independent conversations can be set up over the four lines.

· Playing prerecorded presentations over a line when the telephone
handset is lifted (for example, at trade show or museum displays).

· As a teaching aid with the audio port configured to allow monitoring
and/or recording of a telephone conversation (for example, when
teaching children to use "9-1-1").

· Testing telephone or key system installations.

· Caller ID and other CLASS features.



Try that with your 616!

I was uninformed then. Now I know the differences.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 04, 2018, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 03, 2018, 09:44:24 AM
That's good to know. I think I have one beige 2500.

I've been looking at  this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-Refurbished-KX-T61610/112553306276?hash=item1a34b328a4:g:J3AAAOSw9GhYlL5O). Anyone know this guy or dealt with him before?

I did a bit of research on this ebay seller, found that he deals in Panasonic stuff exclusively, and pulled the trigger. Sixty nine dollars later, the 616 should be here in a week.

Dave
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Got the 616 in today. Looks good. Packed well. Plugged it in and hit the switch and the Night and Day lights came on, click  the Night went off. Seems good so far.

Plugged in a rotary dial Princess phone into ext 11 and a rotary dial Ericophone into another ext. Used the Ericophone to dial the Princess got a busy signal. That's odd. I was looking at both phones and I swear no one was using the Princess.

Set the Ericophone down, picked it back up  - still a busy signal. Couldn't get the busy signal to stop until I unplugged it and plugged it into another ext. Used the princess to dial the Ericophone - same deal - busy signal until I unplug it.

Tried a couple of different ports with both phones. Busy signals.

It's obvious I'm missing something simple, but what the heck is it?
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: AE_Collector on March 09, 2018, 03:45:08 PM
Dialing the right number? To dial the first port it is 21 I think...not 01. Slow busy not fast busy? Busy signal starts right after your second digit is complete?

What happens if you dial 9.... or 0?

Just shooting in the dark, I don't have one of these systems set up.

Terry
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2018, 04:05:09 PM
Here's something interesting. The 616 doesn't like my Ericophone. I plugged another Princess into it and each dials and rings the other just as Panasonic had intended.

I discovered it by accident. I dialed an incorrect extension and got a ringing tone. Immediately dialed the right number and got a busy signal. Figured it might be the Erico, and apparently it was.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Doug Rose on March 09, 2018, 04:05:45 PM
My 616 strarts with x11 to x26. Do you get DT on both phones?  Pull the battery strap and set it to default.  Some where on the Forum I posted a 616 manual.....Doug
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2018, 04:09:47 PM
Here's something interesting. The 616 doesn't like my Ericophone. I plugged another Princess into it and each dials and rings the other just as Panasonic had intended.

I discovered it by accident. I dialed an incorrect extension and got a ringing tone. Immediately dialed the right number and got a busy signal. Figured it might be the Erico, and apparently it was.

The extension numbers dial exactly as they're listed. Dial 1-1 to get ext 11, and so on.

Now, to figure out why Panasonic and the Ericophone don't play well together. Any ideas, anyone?
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Owain on March 09, 2018, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 09, 2018, 04:09:47 PMHere's something interesting. The 616 doesn't like my Ericophone.

Does your Ericophone have a 4-wire line cord? Panasonic systems use the inner pair for standard phones and the inner+outer pair for systemphones. If your ericophone has any circuitry - ringing capacitor perhaps? - to the outer pair it may be being detected by the extension circuit as an off-hook or faulty systemphone
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: AE_Collector on March 09, 2018, 04:40:55 PM
Or even just a 4 wire cord where the outer conductors yellow and black have been shorted together inside the phone under a spare screw terminal.

Terry
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2018, 05:03:32 PM
darn, guys. I'll have to put my glasses on to figure that one out. I'll have to get back to you . . . when I can find them.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Jim Stettler on March 09, 2018, 06:00:39 PM
You might check with Richard Rose.

You can reach him thru his site
http://www.ericofon.com/work.htm
There is a troubleshooting section on his website as well.
Hope this helps.
Jim S.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: MADhouseTelephone on March 31, 2018, 10:45:19 AM
One thing to make clear:
When you call a 616 from an outside line, it will ring ALL the extensions, unless programed to do otherwise.  I have not found them to allow dialing one extension from outside.
Mine complements my 200 line SxS and C*NET box very nicely. ADavid
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: Protel8000 on April 17, 2018, 09:02:45 PM
I love this site! Just bought a 616 from the eBay link.

This will solve my problem of needing to be able to have my payphone ring my modem (or vice versa) without needing to go out over VoIP. Much cheaper than any of the line simulators I can find used or new on eBay or elsewhere, too.

Plus, who doesn't need their own in-house PBX?? Now I need more phones to fill up all 16 ports.
Title: Re: 308 or 616 for inhouse intercom only
Post by: twocvbloke on April 17, 2018, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: protel8000 on April 17, 2018, 09:02:45 PMNow I need more phones to fill up all 16 ports.

Then you have a few more than 16, and need a 2nd 616, it's how it begins........  ;D