Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Other Telephone Information => Off Topic => Teletypes and Computers => Topic started by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 08:53:08 AM

Title: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 08:53:08 AM
Hi All:

I had an email the other day from a lady who bought a couple of storage units in Ontario, and who found a pile of teletype equipment, manuals, parts, and ephemera in it, and who offered to donate it all to the museum. As I do include teletype equipment in the museum, since the Telephone companies in Canada (Bell, Trans Canada Telephone System, and CN-CP Telecommunications),  distributed them, so I quickly said yes.

Included are three huge boxes of parts for Model 14, 15, 28 and 33 ASR teletypes, many service manuals, test equipment, signs, a model 14 teletype, etc. She sent me about 40 photos of items in the lot.

Then came the problem of getting it all to the Island. I mentioned it in a weekly newsletter I put out, and about an hour after I sent it our, a gentleman who visits the Island several times a year, emailed me and wondered where she was, in case he might be able to help. Sure enough, she lived not far away from him. He is going to go there, and pick it all up, then bring it down to the Island on his several trips this year.

Incredible. And there is stuff that she hasn't photographed, including more parts, and possibly even a model 43 teletype as well.

I am amazed it is all coming together, and very thankful she thought of the museum. It has saved this very important equipment from landfill!

These are only some of 40 photos I have of the equipment, but it will give you an idea of the extent of what is coming. Included is a round button key system phone, which is either a severely discolored moss green, or a very unusual olive drab colour, perhaps army issue. I won't know for sure until it is here!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 10:57:10 AM
More:
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 11:00:09 AM
More!

And these are only a few out of 40 photos, plus she also has some in other storage that will be coming!

I have just heard from my "agent" in Ontario, and he has arranged to pick it all up in the next couple of weeks. He says she tells him she may have as much again!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: AE_Collector on January 19, 2013, 11:16:36 AM
The model 43 (from the picture on the manual) looks to be what I recall being at the frames in all of our CO's. if we heard it fire up, jumper running work was "incoming".

You've been on a roll lately Dave!

Terry
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 11:23:08 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on January 19, 2013, 11:16:36 AM
The model 43 (from the picture on the manual) looks to be what I recall being at the frames in all of our CO's. if we heard it fire up, jumper running work was "incoming".

You've been on a roll lately Dave!

Terry
Hi Terry:

For sure! This one sort of came out of the blue! We aren't sure if we can save the model 43 - she had begun disposing of some of the stuff, but she thinks she can get it back - at least I will have its manual! Now, if only the phone on top of the filing cabinet with the Teletype magnetic sign comes too.

Brian told me that I should take everything I can get - that he'd figure out a way to get it here! Pretty amazing when just two nights ago, I wondered if I would be able to find a way to get any of it here!

I asked him first of all to bring down the parts and anything telephone related, as I want to inventory the parts and make them available to other teletype collectors. Its going to be like Christmas!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Owain on January 19, 2013, 01:25:18 PM
Crumbs.

You may need some storage units of your own.
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 02:31:57 PM
I currently have a number of teletypes which can be demonstrated working in the museum. This began with the KSR-33 shown below, which was given me by Island Tel for my Ham Radio station in 1984. I used it for about a year, then when I had computerized RTTY going, I loaned it to a friend. There is sat in his barn for 20 years, only to be recovered and rebuilt a couple of years ago. It has been infested with squirrels and mice, the platen broken, and mechanism rusted, but I managed to restore it with a lot of TLC.

Model 28:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL1RnE-WPrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J881T6Dtb50

KSR-33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMvs1t1CEH8

ASR-33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqTzvpYumQs

Model 15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9rrd3DYZM

Back in "the Day", teletype service was provided by two sources; the Trans Canada Telephone System, a consortium of Bell and local telephone companies, and by CN-CP Telecommunications. A branding plate is shown below for the TCS. You will note a similar plate on the Model 14 in the photos above.

Dave



Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on January 19, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
I remember the Teletype Corporation building on Touhy Ave in Skokie, IL, not far from where I grew up and a mile from my grandparents' house.  Years ago, it was converted to a shopping center.

Larry
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 19, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
I remember the Teletype Corporation building on Touhy Ave in Skokie, IL, not far from where I grew up and a mile from my grandparents' house.  Years ago, it was converted to a shopping center.

Larry
A lot of people don't know that Teletype Corp. became a subsidiary of AT&T/Western Electric from the 1930 onward. That is why the later Teletype documents are covered in BSPs.

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: AE_Collector on January 20, 2013, 01:36:32 AM
Do you know anything Dave about the TWX brand or marketing name (?) used by the Telco's? And was the TWX name used by US Telco's as well?

Terry
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 20, 2013, 04:03:54 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on January 20, 2013, 01:36:32 AM
Do you know anything Dave about the TWX brand or marketing name (?) used by the Telco's? And was the TWX name used by US Telco's as well?

Terry

At the risk of being too brief, teletype type instruments were first made by Morkrum and also Kleinschmidt Corps. which then merged to become Morkrum-Kleinschmidt Corp., which eventually became Teletype Corp. Teletype became a subsidiary of Western Electric in 1930.

In November, 1931 the Bell System inaugurated the teletypewriter exchange service, often called the TWX (pronounced "twicks", Teletypewriter Exchange Service) service (which is the major motivation for AT&T/Western undertaking the union with Teletype Corp. the previous year).

You will find a lot more detail on this history on:

http://www.thocp.net/hardware/history_of_teletype_development_.htm

And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telex

A little bit of Teletype history little known outside of Canada:

Many don't realize it, but some teletypes were made in Canada under license from Teletype Corp.; first by Northern Electric, then by Marsland Engineering, which was then acquired in 1969 by Leigh Instruments who continued the manufacture of these machines. This was to get around import duties and taxes at the time which doubled the cost of a teletype imported from the US.

Leigh Instruments acquired Marsland Engineering in 1969 as part of an expansion. Leigh closed their manufacturing facility completely in 1983 to concentrate on other ventures. Unknown to many, Northern Electric manufactured these for a few years  before Marsland started building them, but the quality was poorer due to inferior hardening of metal parts as compared to made by Teletype, Marsland and Leigh. For some reason, despite their expertise in manufacturing, Northern Electric never got the hardening process right.

My KSR-33 is a Leigh manufactured unit, but is still Teletype design, only built in Canada.  Other than its nameplate, it is virtually identical to the U.S. manufactured units. I have only discovered one difference. Print "bumpers"  used on the hammers of print assemblies in the U.S. on Model 32 and 33s were made of a rubber which degrades over time, and the units will destroy the print wheel once they go soft. However, even NOS bumpers  still existing in their original bags have gone soft and gummy, making them useless today. Here is where the difference comes, and I discovered it quite by accident.

Here, in Canada, these were manufactured in Canada, and Leigh used a slightly different rubber compound for theirs. It does not degrade like the American counterparts. A couple of years ago, I was given two of these, and have one in use on one of my machines. The other I sent down to the US to use as a sample for a group that was trying to get some manufactured. That still hasn't happened yet, but neoprene tubing slid over the print hammer arm works as an acceptable substitute but still not original, but preventing damage to the soft metal print wheels. Hopefully eventually, the bumpers will be re-manufactured, and they will become available again!

It was a tiny part, but which made a very big difference!

So, that was straying a bit from the topic, but I think it is an interesting twist to the Teletype story! Many of the details in this story were furnished by Ken Gartland, a retired CN-CP Telecommunications employee who was living in Nova Scotia, who has advised me in some of my teletype rebuilds.

Dave

Leigh KSR-33 machine in the museum, given me by Island Tel in 1984, shown after I refurbished it in 2011:
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: LarryInMichigan on January 21, 2013, 07:10:18 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 19, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
I remember the Teletype Corporation building on Touhy Ave in Skokie, IL, not far from where I grew up and a mile from my grandparents' house.  Years ago, it was converted to a shopping center.

Larry
A lot of people don't know that Teletype Corp. became a subsidiary of AT&T/Western Electric from the 1930 onward. That is why the later Teletype documents are covered in BSPs.

Dave

By the end of its life, the Teletype facility had become an AT&T Bell Labs facility.  In earlier years, the sign in front said "Teletype Corporation" and had the old square wave logo.

Larry
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 21, 2013, 07:10:18 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 19, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
I remember the Teletype Corporation building on Touhy Ave in Skokie, IL, not far from where I grew up and a mile from my grandparents' house.  Years ago, it was converted to a shopping center.

Larry
A lot of people don't know that Teletype Corp. became a subsidiary of AT&T/Western Electric from the 1930 onward. That is why the later Teletype documents are covered in BSPs.

Dave

By the end of its life, the Teletype facility had become an AT&T Bell Labs facility.  In earlier years, the sign in front said "Teletype Corporation" and had the old square wave logo.

Larry

Yep, and sadly, even that is gone now! Just like AE in Brockville - it is now a business center housing dozens of small businesses!

I have been thinking, that it is odd that more don't collect teletypes, as they were definitely part of telephone history, but I suppose a lot of it has to do with the complexity of the machines, and their size and weight. You need a lot of room to properly display them! I am thankful I had room to represent them in the museum, and I love working on them.

But so sad to see former huge corporations belonging to Bell, that if they exist at all today, are now only a vestige of their former prominence. I guess good things never last forever!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: paul on January 21, 2013, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
I have been thinking, that it is odd that more don't collect teletypes, as they were definitely part of telephone history, but I suppose a lot of it has to do with the complexity of the machines, and their size and weight

Don't forget the noise! The first second computer I ever used was an HP-2000F timesharing system that used (mostly) ASR-33's as terminals. There were probably only 8 in the room but the sound when all of them were going off on output was almost deafening!
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 11:28:00 AM
Quote from: paul on January 21, 2013, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
I have been thinking, that it is odd that more don't collect teletypes, as they were definitely part of telephone history, but I suppose a lot of it has to do with the complexity of the machines, and their size and weight

Don't forget the noise! The first second computer I ever used was an HP-2000F timesharing system that used (mostly) ASR-33's as terminals. There were probably only 8 in the room but the sound when all of them were going off on output was almost deafening!

Sort of like working in a Strowger C.O.!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: AE_Collector on January 21, 2013, 09:48:42 PM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 11:28:00 AM
Sort of like working in a Strowger C.O.!

Yeah I miss that. Even the Seattle Museum doesn't have a way of putting any amount of traffic onto it's SxS office so we can hear it process any more than a call at a time.

Terry
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Phonesrfun on January 22, 2013, 01:06:42 AM
Phil McCarter has a way to put lots of traffic on his SxS, using his computer that drives his C*Net system.  Pretty impressive.

My first computer was a TI 99-4A with a serial port.  Someone gave me a TTY 33 that had an RS232 port and I used it for the output of my computer before I upgraded to an Oki serial dot matrix printer.  The TTY was so noisy that my wife and family insisted that I keep it out in the garage.  It did not print very well below about 40 deg. F.
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Mr. Bones on January 22, 2013, 02:26:42 AM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on January 22, 2013, 01:06:42 AM
Phil McCarter has a way to put lots of traffic on his SxS, using his computer that drives his C*Net system.  Pretty impressive.

My first computer was a TI 99-4A with a serial port.  Someone gave me a TTY 33 that had an RS232 port and I used it for the output of my computer before I upgraded to an Oki serial dot matrix printer.  The TTY was so noisy that my wife and family insisted that I keep it out in the garage.  It did not print very well below about 40 deg. F.

Bill,

     My first 'home computer' was also a TI 99/4A. Used it for quite some time, then moved into the world of CoCo's. Always missed the polyphony of the TI 99's; TRS 80's couldn't do that, for some reason...

      Still love to program in the various BASIC languages....

Best regards!

Terrence

Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 22, 2013, 05:00:02 AM
Quote from: Phonesrfun on January 22, 2013, 01:06:42 AM
My first computer was a TI 99-4A with a serial port.  Someone gave me a TTY 33 that had an RS232 port and I used it for the output of my computer before I upgraded to an Oki serial dot matrix printer.  The TTY was so noisy that my wife and family insisted that I keep it out in the garage.  It did not print very well below about 40 deg. F.
That is what I used my KSR-33 for when I first got it in 1984 from Island Tel. First with a Timex-Sinclair TS-1000, then with a VIC-20. I eventually did as you did and upgraded to an OKI printer. When I did that, I loaned the KSR-33 to a friend, who used it for about a year until he got a dot matrix printer, then it sat in his barn for 20 years, until I recovered it. The mice had been living in it, the cover and platen were broken, and it was seized solid with mouse urine and rust. It really was a nightmare! It took me at least two months to find parts, and to do it, but I did manage to rebuild it, and it is today a prized and working part of the collection.

I still have that OKI printer that replaced it, in a box in a cupboard in the museum. I also still somewhere have the TS-1000, interfaces and memory modules, a C-64, a Commodore PET and a Commodore Super PET computer, and yes, even a TRS-80. I still have my interface box for the early computers and the teletype as well. I guess that is the definition of a pack-rat; it is amazing what happens to stick around over the years!

Just to show you what 20 years of bad storage does to a machine, see the photos below - 1 and 2, after solvent cleaning and removal of pine cones and seeds, but before rebuilding. There were even small pine cones stored under the keyboard! The platen and most parts were frozen in place, and 3rd, after rebuilding!

Most would have given it up as a lost cause, but it had special meaning to me, as it had been my first teletype, and came direct from Island Tel in 1984. They gave away several at that time to local Hams including me. At the time, it was really amazing, having a "real" printer for my computers! My how things have changed.
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Owain on January 22, 2013, 08:53:13 AM
Whenever I see the forum title I think "Teletype's what?"
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on January 26, 2013, 05:21:57 AM
I received the news  last night that my haul is being picked up today by my "agent" in Ontario, he will be inventorying it for me, then bringing it down to the Island on his various trips this year!

It really is incredible that the transportation has worked out so well - the night I was offered it all, I had no idea how I would get it here, and then the following day, I had the offer to bring it down. Now, if only transportation would always work out so well!

Update: January 27th: The pickup took place as expected yesterday. Brian and his wife traveled to Severn Bridge and picked up the Teletype stuff from Gina, and were able to fit it all in their mini van.

Brian is busy today, but will be doing a full inventory of what he has (not including the parts boxes and what is in them - that would be a huge job, which I will tackle when they get here). The main thing is it is safe, and now out of Gina's way, and will be coming to PEI as he has room on his Island trips this year!


Thank God for wonderful helpers like Brian and his family!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Rokumoncat on May 24, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 21, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 21, 2013, 07:10:18 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 19, 2013, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 19, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
I remember the Teletype Corporation building on Touhy Ave in Skokie, IL, not far from where I grew up and a mile from my grandparents' house.  Years ago, it was converted to a shopping center.

Larry
A lot of people don't know that Teletype Corp. became a subsidiary of AT&T/Western Electric from the 1930 onward. That is why the later Teletype documents are covered in BSPs.

Dave

By the end of its life, the Teletype facility had become an AT&T Bell Labs facility.  In earlier years, the sign in front said "Teletype Corporation" and had the old square wave logo.

Larry

Yep, and sadly, even that is gone now! Just like AE in Brockville - it is now a business center housing dozens of small businesses!

I have been thinking, that it is odd that more don't collect teletypes, as they were definitely part of telephone history, but I suppose a lot of it has to do with the complexity of the machines, and their size and weight. You need a lot of room to properly display them! I am thankful I had room to represent them in the museum, and I love working on them.

But so sad to see former huge corporations belonging to Bell, that if they exist at all today, are now only a vestige of their former prominence. I guess good things never last forever!

Dave

I collect and 'rescue' Teletype units as my main hobby! I discovered phones later. I mostly have model 28 equipment, but will rescue any TTY gear from the landfill. I usually get the other stuff (Model 14, 15 etc) working and find loving homes for them. I never sell a Teletype, I give them to someone who will appreciate and preserve them. I have never bought a Teletype, but have paid folks for time, gas and inconvenience. I just found a home for a Western Union model 15 in the original (but filthy) green crinkle paint. There is a gent on the other side of the state that I live in that collects just those, so he is coming to claim his newest child. A master TTY engineer, Jack K0TTY, adjusted and lubricated it for me (I am quite ignorant of the model 15s quirks), and now someone who really digs those machines will have it in their setup.

If anyone is really interested, check out the Greenkeys mail server. There are many very cool folks there that will be happy to help you get into Teletype machines.

R.Cat
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on May 24, 2013, 09:36:41 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on January 26, 2013, 05:21:57 AM
IBrian is busy today, but will be doing a full inventory of what he has (not including the parts boxes and what is in them - that would be a huge job, which I will tackle when they get here). The main thing is it is safe, and now out of Gina's way, and will be coming to PEI as he has room on his Island trips this year![/i]
I spoke with Brian yesterday, and I will soon have the equipment here. He is going to drop it off here either he last day of May, or the first day of June. I still can't wait to do an inventory of parts, as I intend to share them with other teletype collectors...

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: AMCer on May 24, 2013, 10:50:45 AM
I'm so jealous...

I'm STILL looking for a Model 33!  The rare times they come up on eBay, they are "pick-up only" or in Europe. :(
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on May 24, 2013, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: AMCer on May 24, 2013, 10:50:45 AM
I'm so jealous...

I'm STILL looking for a Model 33!  The rare times they come up on eBay, they are "pick-up only" or in Europe. :(
Hint. Ask around your local University.... I was lucky, I had my KSR-33 from years ago, albeit loaned to a friend 25 years ago and stored in his barn, but also got another ASR-33 from a lady from Mass. She even delivered it! But my poor old KSR was in terrible shape after 20+ years of barn storage - it took me a good two months to find the needed parts and get it working!

http://www.islandregister.com/phones/teletype/rtty.html

Join the Greenkeys list - one might come up in your area.

http://www.rtty.com/greenkeys.htm

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Phonesrfun on May 24, 2013, 02:32:56 PM
RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYR
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: Jim Stettler on May 24, 2013, 02:52:30 PM
I am pretty sure I still have a large stack of Teletype BSP's. I will post if they turn up.
Jim

Large = several inches
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on May 31, 2013, 11:27:50 AM
Hi All:

I received my Teletype stuff today, and amongst it was a Telephone Service Decal someone asked about a few months ago, and who asked for a scan of it is soon as it arrived. Now, I am going to use the decal in the museum, on the door to its service department, but here is a scan.

This 8 inch diameter decal is labelled on the back Sign No. 126W Double sided Date 17 3 58 and made for NE by Beaver Decalmania of Montreal, Quebec. Made in Canada. When I apply it, I will do so very gingerly!

It was beautifully preserved, as it had been protected front and back by waxed paper.

The decal is 8 inches in diameter.

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on May 31, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
Also, along with the teletype items there was a surprise, a Northern Telecom "Installation Tool" NR-2315 stamping set, more or less the same as the Neuses N-2315 version I have and the Western Electric ones others have.

The rest of the items will take quite a while to inventory - give me a chance till I have everything inventoried.

Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on June 01, 2013, 05:25:12 AM
Here is some more of the haul....

1) CDC SDA-103 Signal and Distortion Analyzer/Tester

2) CDC TMG-303 Fox and Signal Sender

3) Digitech 2652 Signal and Distortion Analyzer/Tester

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on June 04, 2013, 12:59:16 PM
Another item of many in the Teletype Haul! A magnetic car sign advertising Teletype Service. I told my wife I was going to have fun with an old teletype guy here by visiting him with the sign stuck on my car door!

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on June 05, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
By the way, the multi-line phone shown in one of the first photos looks much better than in that photo - I must grab a better photo of it. Without being certain, I believe it is a 565, but what sub-version it is I can't be sure until I have another look at it. It has an exclusion switch on it...

Dave
Title: Re: Huge Haul of Teletype Equipment on the Way!
Post by: DavePEI on June 07, 2013, 02:30:46 PM
Ok, here are the details on the Northern 565. It is an Avocado 565-H, lighted 5 lines plus hold, exclusion key (pull up left hook switch), and is outfitted for 25 pair lines.

Despite the lousy photo, it is a normal avocado colour, and both the colour on the housing and handset match.

Amazing the colour differences between the actual phone and the lousy photo she sent me. I am glad to see them, though, as the phone is great!

I played around with the teletype loop supply today, replacing its missing fuse holder and shortening the power cord to get rid of a bad section. It is capable of loops up to 100 ma. and adjustable by a rheostat and on-board meter. It has a reversing switch to allow reversal of loop line polarity. 4 jacks are included on its panel to allow interconnections of multiple machines.

Dave