Wanted: assortment of WE parts

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Hi!

I need the following parts for a WE Field Trial 302 (D-97464) project coming up in the next few days. Since I'm practically building a phone around an original housing, I would like to buy the following parts from anyone who has them for sale to make this phone as original as possible:

1936 E1 handset. I would prefer a '36, but I would consider any seamed E1.

1936 #4 dial. Again, I would consider any #4, but would love a '36.

Metal 302 lift and hookswitch. Paint condition for the lift is not a problem for me, it will be sand-blasted and powder coated anyway.

Prewar 302 base. Do any of you have any prewar 302 bases (base, ringer, condenser, ind. coil) that you would consider selling? Do you know what kind of condition they're in?

I want this project to be as original as possible, so anything dated 1936 would be perfect for this project.

Please PM me with what you have and what dollar amount you would like to sell it for.

Thanks!

[Doug Rose]

Christian....why are you sand blasting and powercoating it? It looked really good as it was? Don't make it look "Too Good." I "think" have a lift (hookswitch cover) with really good paint and my E1 is I35. so its too early. I'll check the dungeon in the morning. My guess is you want a base from 37 or 38. Don't rush it, its a labor of love. I am envious,.....the project will be as much fun as the completed '36. Be patient and get the correct dates and don't leave the parts on your bedroom floor  . You need to find real cloth cords as well, no repros on this find...Doug

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Christian....why are you sand blasting and powercoating it? It looked really good as it was? Don't make it look "Too Good." I "think" have a lift (hookswitch cover) with really good paint and my E1 is I35. so its too early. I'll check the dungeon in the morning. My guess is you want a base from 37 or 38. Don't rush it, its a labor of love. I am envious,.....the project will be as much fun as the completed '36. Be patient and get the correct dates and don't leave the parts on your bedroom floor  . You need to find real cloth cords as well, no repros on this find...Doug

I was thinking about powder coating the base with a satin finish, and then adding the 'D97464' markings with orange stampings, to look just like the original sets. I also want to powder coat the housing and other exposed metal parts with a gloss finish. I would leave the housing the way it is, but the seller says it was repainted, although I will check it over to make sure it doesn't look like a factory finish.

I want to powder coat the lift along with the housing, because it will obviously have a different age than the freshly painted housing, and they won't look right together, It would be best to give it a really good, long-lasting finish that is really tough and professional.

About the E1; I might be interested. I would rather have an earlier part than a later one.

The base would be really cool if it were a '37 or '38, but I would take any prewar base that has the 'flatter' profile, the type without the condenser indent.

[Bartonpipes]

Just out of curiosity, how would you be doing the markings in orange ink? It would be great to have a tool for a serious restorer to be able to replace markings that have been worn off. (I can also see that it could be a bad thing for people trying to pass off more common phones as rarer ones)

[Greg G.]

Just out of curiosity, how would you be doing the markings in orange ink? It would be great to have a tool for a serious restorer to be able to replace markings that have been worn off. (I can also see that it could be a bad thing for people trying to pass off more common phones as rarer ones)

I would be interested in that also, as I have at least one or two phones that had date stamps that were inadvertently lost during restoration despite my best efforts to preserve them.

[DavePEI]

I would be interested in that also, as I have at least one or two phones that had date stamps that were inadvertently lost during restoration despite my best efforts to preserve them.

That would be an NR-2315 by Northern, a R-2315 by Western, or an N-2315 Numbering Kit by Neuses with vermillion ink....  These are stamping kits mage for labeling, and have stamp sticks for multiple sizes

These contain the following sizes:

   
• Peg stamps: 3/4" (19mm)= N-1382, 3/8" (9.5mm)= N-1721, 1/4" (6mm)= N-2706, 3/16" (5mm)= N-1378, 1/8" (3.2mm)= N-1379, and 5/64" (1.9mm)= N-1564.
• Stamp repair set: Adhesive backed letters, numbers and symbols in the following sizes: 3/8" (9.5mm), 1/4" (6mm), 3/16" (5mm), 1/8" (3.2mm)= N-2567. Repair with 5/64" (1.9mm)= N-2567A.
• Fuse capacity stamps: 3/8" (9.5mm) and 3/16" (5mm)= N-2467.
• Stamping ink (two of each per kit): Black= N-2880, White= N-2881, Yellow= N-2882, Vermillion (red)= N-2883.
• Additional components: Spreading knife= N-1060, Marking remover= N-2121, Brushes (4)= N-2119, Inking plate= N-1373, Bottle w/ dauber= N-1982.

Thought you had one of these, Briny? An oranger ink could be customized using Vermillion and Yellow ink mixed.

Dave

[paul-f]

I was thinking about powder coating the base with a satin finish, and then adding the 'D97464' markings with orange stampings, to look just like the original sets.

<snip>
The base would be really cool if it were a '37 or '38, but I would take any prewar base that has the 'flatter' profile, the type without the condenser indent.

Nice find, Christian.

If you don't find a real D-97464 bottom plate, I strongly suggest you not mark it.  That would be misleading.  Better to have a description card with the set explaining the housing and the restoration.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I was thinking about powder coating the base with a satin finish, and then adding the 'D97464' markings with orange stampings, to look just like the original sets.

<snip>
The base would be really cool if it were a '37 or '38, but I would take any prewar base that has the 'flatter' profile, the type without the condenser indent.

Nice find, Christian.

If you don't find a real D-97464 bottom plate, I strongly suggest you not mark it.  That would be misleading.  Better to have a description card with the set explaining the housing and the restoration.

Good idea. I was wondering if I should modify the base in that way, but I guess I didn't make that clear enough. So I should just leave the markings original on any parts I add? Should I attach one of those "report all troubles" tag inside the housing, just for posterity?

[paul-f]

I would leave any original markings and not add any "reproduction" markings.

I display a 1949 7A dial in a 1950 500 set.  I wish the whole set was dated 1949, but wishing doesn't make it so.  I'm glad to have at least part of a 1949 500 set.

The inside details of your housing match the earlier (I36) housing photos I've seen.  Later housings had a different configuration near the cord hole.

The baseplates used on the field trial sets had tabs along the sides and a different profile and holes in the bottom, as well as different components.  You won't find those features in later parts.

One of the more challenging is the switchhook/plunger assembly Robby mentioned in another topic.  You may have to do some creative engineering to get a later part to fit, as Dan did with his early 500-type set.
  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13603.msg142331#msg142331

Here's a photo someone sent me...

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Hmm, it might be possible to use a CAD machine to replicate those plungers. They look like straightforward cylynders to me, rather than the slightly more complex plungers on later 302s. Only problem is finding a place to create those...

Fortunately, the housing's hookswitch mounting holes line up perfectly with the later type hookswitch, so it might be possible to attach it that way.

Paul, just so you know, according to the seller, the housing was repainted at some point. I think all of the original markings are long gone. If you don't think I should attach a label, I think I should just leave one next to it on the display, because those are really cool!

[paul-f]

As you know, there has been a long tradition in phone refurbishing of painting, re-plating and replacing missing decals and nameplates, etc.  Many of the pre-1910 phones have modern repro parts -- some created by master craftsmen that are almost impossible to tell from the original.

The problem for the collecting community is to be able to tell which are repros ten or fifty years later, after the phone has changed hands a few times.

IMHO, there's no problem adding a good quality repro paper label.  Since you don't have the original components marked with the field trial serial number, that part of the label should remain blank.  It would also be good to include a note in tiny print on the bottom label edge like, "Copy of the label from Field Trial set NNN dated I36."

Clearly documenting everything that was done in the restoration will make it easier for future collectors who might be comparing your set with other D- sets and wondering why the paint, the switchhook and other components are different. 

In general, document anything you'd like to know if you found the set for sale and were planning to spend your own money to buy it.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Okay, so include that the housing is pretty much the only original component of the set? Should I include initial parts dates, date the set was restored, etc?

[WEBellSystemChristian]

  Should it maybe look something like this:

FORM CS-1             

             BELL TELEPHONE LABORATORIES, INC.

            R E P A I R M A N---Report all
            troubles or work done in
            detail to TEST DESK and fill out
            TRIAL STATION TROUBLE
            REPORT Bell Tel. Lab. Form
            CS-4.

            STOREROOM OR SHOP  --  DO
            not clean or work on this set.
            Forward to Bell Telephone
            Laboratories representative.

            *copied from F.T set 8224

[paul-f]

You might reference set 866 dated I36 rather than 8224.  866 had the same casting marks as your housing.  8224 had a later casting that was more like the production 302 housing.

  http://www.paul-f.com/wep302.html#302Metal

Add the word cleared after trouble in the second text line.

[Greg G.]

I would be interested in that also, as I have at least one or two phones that had date stamps that were inadvertently lost during restoration despite my best efforts to preserve them.

That would be a R-2315 by Western,


Thought you had one of these, Briny? An oranger ink could be customized using Vermillion and Yellow ink mixed.

Dave

I thought that sounded familiar.  I did, but I sold it.  It wasn't very well suited for repairing markings on phones.  Most of the stamps seemed to be more for electrical symbols more than anything else.  The number fonts were too large and it was missing the hyphen mark (-) .  I practiced with some of them and found it difficult to get a good clear stamp like the originals.  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5557.0

I would be more interested in a modern equivalent, like the 4 - 6 digit adjustable banded markers, but I don't know the proper size and type of font that would be needed.