565 mystery?

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I became interested in trying to restore one of my three 1956 565s, none of which are original and all have missing/replaced pieces or dates that don't match. Now I'm stumped over this little mystery.

One of my 565Hs was originally from 1956, but was refurbed and upgraded to a 565HD in 1963. Of the three, it's the only one with a terminal strip on the left side and the exclusion hardware. Neither one of my other two 565Hs has the strip or exclusion, and neither one even has holes the strip is mounted to.

Paul's site states that 564s did not have exclusion, yet any 565 does (whether it's an H, HD, etc). So why does the HD have the correct hardware, and the H's don't?

[poplar1]

All 565s, 1565s and 2565s can be equipped for exclusion, but this is an optional feature that requires installation of additional parts (the exclusion contact springs and in the older sets, an additional terminal strip.

564s never have exclusion feature because they don't have the special plunger or the required extra leads (V-B/B-V and V-O/O-V of the newer color code) in the mounting cord,

The 2nd phone pictured is actually a 565HB, not just a 565H. The "A/B" stamp indicates that the baseplate is used for both the 565HA (manual) or 565HB (dial). The R suffix indicated a spring cord but was probably not stamped on the phone (565HBR).

[WEBellSystemChristian]

So a 565 did not necessarily come from the factory with exclusion, but can be modified afterwards; but a 564 does not include it from the factory and cannot be modified afterwards? All three sets have the exclusion plunger, so that makes sense!

Thanks for the info!

[podor]

I don't think any 565/1565/2565 came with the exclusion electronics from the factory, per the BSP.

[Babybearjs]

the biggest problem with this series phone is that the exclusion switches are hard to find.... I have a ton of 564's and 2564's and they can be upgraded to the 65 series IF you can find the exclusion switch AND the exclusion Plunger.... (that funky white part) I have a 544 that I can change into a 545 IF I could find the exclusion switch assembly.... so the big question is..... Who has them? OPW doesn't and Phonecoinc doesn't either...(Mary probably doesn't even know what they look like) and I don't see them on Ebay at all....so, where does one find them???

[poplar1]

the biggest problem with this series phone is that the exclusion switches are hard to find.... I have a ton of 564's and 2564's and they can be upgraded to the 65 series IF you can find the exclusion switch AND the exclusion Plunger.... (that funky white part) I have a 544 that I can change into a 545 IF I could find the exclusion switch assembly.... so the big question is..... Who has them? OPW doesn't and Phonecoinc doesn't either...(Mary probably doesn't even know what they look like) and I don't see them on Ebay at all....so, where does one find them???

I realize that you make your own mounting cords, one for each line, but the standard mounting cords for 564/2564s have fewer conductors (30 or 34) compared with those for 565s and 2565s (50 leads = all 25 pairs).

Also, the LG (lamp ground) leads from the KSU (key equipment) are strapped together in the Amphenol plug of the mounting cord for a 564 or 2564, and there is a metal bus inside the phone to tie all the lamp grounds to the white-green lead (LG for 1st line). So there is up to 5 times as much current on the one white-green lead of a 564 or 2564, compared to the 565/2565. The (2)565 has individual lamp ground leads in the mounting cord, so the bus is not needed inside the phone.

The white plungers should be easy to find -- usually they are being used only to activate the hookswitch -- but the hand-hold cover also has to be changed along with the plunger, so matching the color of this part may be a problem unless the donor phone is the same color as the 564/2564 you are attempting to convert to a 565/2565.

Phoneco does have a lot of key sets. If a set is equipped with exclusion, the white plunger should stay up when pulled up (if it's working properly). Perhaps all 502s and 2502s are already equipped with exclusion keys, but I don't know if they will fit in a 6-button set. However, there are only 2 sets of contacts for excluding tip and ring in the single line 502/2502. In the 565/2565, the exclusion key has 4 sets of contacts. (If the A lead is not disconnected from the excluded set, then it is possible that the excluded phone could drop a held call by picking up on that line, even though they wouldn't hear anything.)

[unbeldi]

Why is that a problem ?
Seems to me a 564 should remain a 564, and a 544 just that, when you really need a 565 you go and find one.

[poplar1]

Why is that a problem ?
Seems to me a 564 should remain a 564, and a 544 just that, when you really need a 565 you go and find one.

I agree. In my experience, 565s and 2565s were always more plentiful than 564s and 2564s. In some areas, the 565s and 2565s were standard, even though installers often preferred the simpler 564s and 2564s (and 236G coin collectors rather than 234Gs!). New York Telephone, for example, in their 1969 Key Systems Manual, shows only one 564: the 564HDR. However, they list 565HDR, 565LDR, 565HK, 1565HK and 2565HK.

The problem he stated is the lack of availability of the exclusion keys. Perhaps he talks about converting the 564s and 2564s to 565s and 2565s only because he already has "a ton" of 564s and 2564s.

[unbeldi]

Indeed.
The lack of ready availability is a "problem"  (really?) with many parts or subassemblies.  I indeed would like to find the extra switch for one of my 502s—it came with only the white plunger—but it was clearly not stolen out of the set, and the set was operated this way by all indications. Such individual parts usually come from a junker telephone that is too far gone to be restored.  Rarely does anyone find a stash of spare parts.  The solution is to enjoy the antique piece for what it represents, history. We are not talking about something that anyone still needs or wants to use in world war three. For WW3 you need an IP phone.

[poplar1]

Indeed.
The lack of ready availability is a "problem"  (really?) with many parts or subassemblies.  I indeed would like to find the extra switch for one of my 502s—it came with only the white plunger—but it was clearly not stolen out of the set, and the set was operated this way by all indications.

Why would anyone order a 502 without exclusion key? Were they really available? If you needed only A-lead control, or common audible ringer, a 500M would suffice.

               These sets are factory-wired for A lead
               control or busy lamp, cutoff extension sta-
               tion or ringer[,] and line ringer.  To modify set
               for A lead control or busy lamp, cutoff of
               ringer in set, ringer used as common or private
               line ringer, see Table A.

              Réf: Section 502-515-422, Issue 3, October, 1967
                     TELEPHONE SETS -- 1502B
                     CONNECTIONS

             in Key Telephone Handbook, New York Telephone, Issued by Operating Staff Plant, November, 1969.

[unbeldi]

Well, since it does have the proper plunger, I am sure it was manufactured with the entire key. I didn't know they came any other way.
Why the switch is missing, can only be speculated about, not terribly productive now.
When I said it does not look to be stolen, I meant that the set didn't seem to come from a collector who needed the part. But who knows...

[Babybearjs]

I have run across some 565/2565's that have the white plunger, but no exclusion key inside... if the 565/2565 phones were suppose to have the exclusion feature, then why no key? unless the took a 565 and turned it back into a 564.

[poplar1]

I have run across some 565/2565's that have the white plunger, but no exclusion key inside... if the 565/2565 phones were suppose to have the exclusion feature, then why no key? unless the took a 565 and turned it back into a 564.

502 = exclusion key was standard
565 = exclusion key was optional but white plunger was standard

All 565/1565/2565 sets were assembled with one white plunger, the modified hand-hold cover to accommodate that plunger, a dial with extra contact springs needed for a 3A or 4A speaker phone, and a D50 cord --- but no exclusion key contact springs.

The speakerphone, exclusion feature, conversion of some keys from pickup to signal, and other options were added by the installer.

This standardization by WE meant that for most key systems, only 2 models  (x64 and x65) needed to be stocked for up to 5 line appearances or 4 lines + intercom. The 400-series keysets required different sets for signal buttons (HPPPPS, HPPPSS,etc.), exclusion, etc.

502s, on the other hand, were probably always shipped with exclusion  contact springs, since other single line models were available if you didn't need an exclusion key.

[Babybearjs]

I thought the exclusion keys between the 502 and 565 had different wiring schemes...

[poplar1]

I thought the exclusion keys between the 502 and 565 had different wiring schemes...

Already answered this, last paragraph, 9/27 8:18:

           there are only 2 sets of contacts for excluding tip and ring in the single line 502/2502. In the 565/2565, the exclusion key has  4 sets of contacts.

The other contacts are to prevent false operation of an A rleay.