Switchhook Dimensions?

[poplar1]

Here is a post showing the older style hook, used by WE  from about 1904-1914 and later by Northern Electric. It is shaped differently than yours. The profile of your hook looks like the one I posted before (Bill's 1914-1930 style), other than the missing bumper.

Look at the 3rd picture down (out of 4) in Sargeguy's post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6956.msg84978#msg84978

[tekuhn]

Pretty sure we're making some progress here. The last picture showing the other type hook is definitely on the correct style perch as mine. I believe that perch is referred to as the solid two-piece? All of the screws that attach the terminals and switch springs to my plate do have insulators on them, so the hook might not need to be insulated.

Also, I looked at pictures of original and reproduction of the style hook that I have on oldphoneworks.com. I clearly have the reproduction piece. It is very poorly stamped and the pivot hole is drilled off-center of the stamped pad. Here are better pictures of what I have. It is a 20AL. I'm now suspecting the style perch I have uses the other (older?) hook.

[poplar1]

So much has been added/changed on your phone, that I don't know how much was done at the Western Electric repair shop and what was done afterward. Obviously, WE didn't install the repro hook or mouthpiece. If they stamped out the old model (20-B? 20-S?) on the back of the perch, then restamp it 20-AL on the front or side of the perch, then it's likely that they did that when they added the 3rd contact spring bottom terminal on the hookswitch, which is a screw terminal rather than a hex nut. These are called "conversions" -- of one model to another.

I don't have a conversion 20-B>20-AL -- some were even converted to a dial version -- to see how they handled the non-insulated/insulated hook question. On the original 20-Bs and 20-Ss with the 2-piece solid perch, they had only one wire to the transmitter, and only two terminals on the hookswitch. The phone metal itself was used as the "ground" return.

Even if your contact springs are all insulated, still, if there is no bumper, there will be electrical contact between the long spring and the exposed hook. Definitely acceptable technology in 1904. Maybe not such a good idea today, unless you plan to convert it back from a 20-AL to its original 20-B/20-S configuration. But if you find the right hook, perhaps you could just wrap one layer of electrical tape around the long contact where the hook and spring touch.

[tekuhn]

You are correct, there is a stamping on the back of the perch that starts with a 2 that has been obliterated and the 20AL is stamped on the front. I can't tell what the original stamping was. It does not appear to have ever been nickel plated. I could probably modify this hook to work OK, but I really would prefer to have the correct part.

[poplar1]

Based on what others have written, the fact that there are patent dates on the perch means it was more likely a 20-B perch rather than a 20-S. The patent dates were on the early perches, but the bases were unmarked or said only "Western Electric Company."

The Bell telephone companies purchased phones from Western Electric to lease to their subscribers. Company-owned phones were returned to WE once they were removed from service so they could remanufacture them, part them out, or junk them. They didn't care about "matching dates" but rather used whatever good parts that were available. They often modified them to be more compatible with the existing technology, such as adding newer transmitters.

[tekuhn]

I found a picture of this hook which looks promising. Anyone recognize this as WE?  I am guessing the round piece protruding is insulated or could be replaced with a plastic dowel if not. Also, if you look at the pictures of my switch plate, there is a smooth hole (non-threaded) directly behind the switch spring. I wonder if that also had an insulating "button" pressed in it so that the spring would be pinned between it and the one in the hook when the receiver was hung up?

[poplar1]

I think the protruding part -- which is metal -- might have been a stop, that struck the metal plate, rather than the contacts. I've seen that hook somewhere, probably on a WE, but can't find one like it right now.

Hopefully, someone has a picture of a Northern Electric N-20AL or N-50AL that even when unmodified had a solid perch and insulated (3-contact) switch.
And maybe a 20-B that was converted to 20-AL like yours, so we can see how they insulated the hook.

[tekuhn]

I really appreciate your help. Think I need to start a new post correctly titled to get responses?

[poplar1]

Also, if you look at the pictures of my switch plate, there is a smooth hole (non-threaded) directly behind the switch spring. I wonder if that also had an insulating "button" pressed in it so that the spring would be pinned between it and the one in the hook when the receiver was hung up?

That hole was for a metal piece with a flat surface facing the spring. With the "receiver on the hook", the hook, the long spring, and this round metal piece were sandwiched together. At least, that's how they operated with the nickel plated hook shown in reply #15.

[poplar1]

I've been searching on the forum under "20-B" for a picture of either the original 20-B pileup or a 20-B>20-AL conversion.
I did find this post by dencins:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8666.msg93004#msg93004


When 20-B were converted to 20AL it was changed from uninsulated to insulated.  This one is still uninsulated.  The 229 would be something like a 337 on a 20AL.  What I have found on 20-B converted to 20AL:   

1.  Insulated transmitter like a 337
2.  Back cup replaced with one without a hole and transmitter wires feed through perch to transmitter
3.  Extra terminals added to the switch (6 total)
4.  Insulated switch hook
5.  Knurled nut replaced with slotted screw mounting bolt
6.  Painted black

[tekuhn]

My phone meets those changes:

- 323 transmitter (although mine was gutted empty shell)
- Transmitter back does feed wires through the mount tab and not from outside
- Switch has added terminals
- Has slotted pivot mount bolt, not knurled nut
- Painted black. It was bare when I got it, but it really looked like tarnished brass and not nickel.

Perhaps the hook fitment issue is just because it's a reproduction? I could trim the top of the spring, but shouldn't have to do that if I had the correct parts.

[poplar1]

Still hoping someone can furnish pictures of an insulated hook for a Northern Electric N-20AL. Also for the insulated hook of a  WE 20-B>20-AL conversion.

I ran across this booklet which describes some of the WE 20-series desk stands.
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=10546&Itemid=2

[tekuhn]

Thanks! I downloaded that same booklet yesterday too. I had forgotten how people used to use the word "telephone" as a verb back then  .

[Greg G.]

The first one worked for me, but not the second.

[tekuhn]

I have an original hook on the way. Hopefully, I won't have to, but if necessary, I will do some minimal trimming to make sure the switch spring contacts on the insulated bumper.