Need help getting my NE 302 to work

[oldguy]

PaddyWhack, don't feel like the only one with a weird dial. Here is my 1st 302 it has a Stromberg Carlson dial.

[PaddyWhack]

The inside of the handset grip is labeled "Bell System Manufactured by Western Electric Company F1." The exterior of the bottom plate has no markings on it that I can make out. And yes, I realized very quickly that the ringer was not connected; I'll have to check what I did to connect it and see if it matches your description. I figure that once upon a time, someone must have been sick of the loud ringing...

RE the dial, I meant that when I pull the fingerwheel back as part of dialing, the return seems slow, and it can get stuck if I don't pull far (i.e. I turn it but not far enough to dial a "1," among other things. Based on what I'm hearing, that's not the "smooth" operation it should have. Interesting...

[PaddyWhack]

So I perhaps this thread has gone dead, but perhaps I can still get some input. (My life's been too busy for this lately.) Anyway, I'm trying to get this thing up and running as soon as I can. Here's how the guts currently look with the new wiring...are there any things I obviously messed up while replacing the cords? (I also have pictures of inside the handset and such if that would be useful.)

Cheers,
PaddyWhack

[poplar1]

See unbeldi's last response: The red ringer wire needs to be moved from GND to L1.
Also, can you show the dial connections?

[PaddyWhack]

Ugh, it keeps saying my attachments have security issues.

[poplar1]

Are the wires connected to the dial as in the photo unbeldi provided here?
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16256.msg168552#msg168552

                                  (handset)    (from L1)                            (handset)
Yellow   Black------------Black            Red           Brown-Blue        White   
                       (strap)                       

[PaddyWhack]

As far as I can tell, the only change I made was to wire the new black and white wires into the exact places their predecessors had been.

[PaddyWhack]

The dial...as it currently is

[unbeldi]

Your dial looks ok to me.

What is not working at this time?

Here is a circuit diagram for a 302.
The five dial terminals are labeled with "dial" and all wire colors are noted in black.


PS: I posted the diagrams in the wiring section of the Forum.  There are also diagrams for the 5H/5J and 6A/6D dials.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16349.msg169455#msg169455

I replaced the diagram originally posted here, with a linked image:

[PaddyWhack]

The wiring diagrams are great! There's only one problem...I'm not sure how to read them, since I'm not experienced with electrical diagrams. But having opened the phone up, I have a bunch of [probably very dumb] questions:

#1 On the dial, there are a pair of connections on the left (yellow & black) and 4 on the right. You can't really see all of them in the photos. I have the brown/yellow going to L2, where it connects with the yellow from the condenser; the black is from the handset. The white wire is going to the handset. Brown/Blue goes to the Hook Switch, where it links with Green, which goes to to GN on the induction coil. Red/Slate is connected to L1, which also seems to be connected to the Red wire from the Line. The last one is this mysterious dark gray [faded black?] wire  that goes to the condenser. I don't see it on the dial diagram, so is it supposed to be there?

#2 I keep hearing I only need 2 wires from the phone line, even though the original had 3. My new line has the same yellow, red, & green as the old line, but it also has a black wire. Do I need the black wire, or can I snip it? Which wires DO I need from the line?

#3 Can I have 2 wires on top of each other under a screw? When 2 screws/terminals are connected (like on the induction coil) does it matter which screw I put the wire under? Obvious, but important.

#4 The yellow Line wire is currently going to GND near "K." Is that right? [This process is making me question everything.]

#5 The connections around the Induction Coil [*pulls hair out*]...here's what I have.

     L1: Red/Slate to R on dial; Red from ringer.
     C: Red from condenser
     L2/Y: Yellow/Brown from Y on dial; Yellow from condenser
     R: Red from Line, Red from Handset.
     GN: Green from Hook Switch
(Green and Black from Line currently unconnected)

If anyone has the patience to sort through this and explain it, I'd be much obliged.

PaddyWhack

[unbeldi]

#2    Today, telephone service only requires two wires, the red and green wires.  On your telephone connection block and in your house wiring, they may also be blue/white and white/blue-striped.

Back a few decades, service required three wires inside the house, and a ground connection outside the house.  The ground connection was the yellow wire and it was used as the electrical return path for the ringing signal, which was delivered by either green or red.

So, you can ignore the yellow wire, as well as the black.  Most often today, they are used for a second telephone line.

#1   If I recall enough, your dial was wired correctly.   Yes, slate/red (from dial R) and red (from ringer) both go to L1.  You can see this in the diagram earlier.   The L1 terminal is at the top in pink.  The lines in the diagram are like wires connecting points on the various pieces of hardware. The pieces of hardware are however, not arranged physically the same, to make it easier to understand the operation.  For example, the two switches of the hookswitch are in different places in the diagram because they connect/disconnect different parts.  The diagrams are always drawn so that wires don't criss-cross over each other as much possible. In some cases it cannot be avoided, but in telephones it is usually simple to do so. Wiring diagrams however, are much more confusing, because when parts are drawn according to their physical relationship, which is often the case for wiring diagrams, they have to cross over or under other traces, just as you see it when you look at the wires in these telephones.
To read diagrams, identify the symbols in the diagram with the parts in the telephone, and from there on, it should be very simple to follow the traces between the symbols, just as if you followed the actual wires between parts.   In this diagram all colors are marked too, and you should be able to identify them in your set, even if the colors have faded or have suffered discoloration over time. Indeed sometimes they all look like various shades of brown.

#3   Yes, sometimes this is necessary, but which order you pile them up under the screw is not important, metal is metal and the resistance over a fraction of a millimeter does not matter.

#4   Yes, the yellow wire is simply stored there, as it is not needed anymore.   Don't cut it, but store it to preserve the originality of the equipment and so someone else could recreate an old authentic set.  Some collectors have equipment that provides lines just the way they were provided 50 or 100 years ago, with ground.

#5   There seems to be a mistake here.   L2/Y, actually L2 and Y terminals, there are two screws,  should have a yellow from condenser and yellow from hook switch.   The yellow-brown from dial should also go to hook switch.
Terminal R on the induction coil, should only have the red wire from the hookswitch.  This is point R in the diagram, and here the diagram may not be so obvious if you're not used to circuit diagrams, because it should a line going to the transmitter TX, and to the receiver RX.  In reality these two are one and the same wire.    The diagram is valid because lines are considered having zero resistance therefore it does not matter how long the line is how complex it is looped around on the paper.  It is drawn for convenience and operational clarity, not necessarily exact physical connection.

I hope I covered everything.   

[unbeldi]

Here are the color schemes of modern telephone wiring from this topic.

[PaddyWhack]

Thanks! I think I have just a couple remaining questions... First, there's a black wire from the handset. Is it supposed to go to the dial? Second, where does the green wire from the Line go to? And what about red from Line? The only wire labeled "green" in the diagram is the one from the condenser (which is currently attached to GN) Another thing is that although the only wire that should go to "R" on the induction coil is a red wire from the hookswitch, the hook switch doesn't have a red wire.

HOWEVER, the diagram of the modular plug made me realize something: the connector on my line has the black where the yellow should be, and vice versa. Red and Green are correct. Would that mix-up have an effect? (Connect the black wire to Ground for same effect?)

That's what I'm seeing as issues at the moment.

[unbeldi]

The line connects to L1 and L2.  Which color doesn't really matter anymore today, and even the Bell System changed its mind a couple of times, but they did make a few telephones for which it mattered greatly; for example, the early touch tone sets need proper polarity for the transistor in the tone dial to operate.

In general, the green (tip) wire should be positive with respect to red (ring).  Most commonly today these are L1 and L2, respectively.

The diagram of the modular jack shown is the standard, but many cables are manufactured today that are wrong, as long as the green and red are in the center two positions, the cord will work—when everything else is properly wired.


The black wire from the handset goes to the BK terminal on the dial, indeed.  this is the transmitter signal.  The black condenser lead also terminates on the same screw.

The green wire in the diagram does not end at the condenser, it is the hookswitch (HS2 in diagram) wire connected to the GN terminal.
The condenser had black and red leads; the red going to the C terminal on the induction coil.

The R terminal on the induction coil has the red wire from the handset, NOT from the hook switch.

[PaddyWhack]

Okay, I finally have things wired up as it seems they should be...and it still doesn't work. No dial tone, it doesn't dial out, and it doesn't receive calls. I have a hunch that the next thing to look at is whether one of the components or wires is non-functional.
The Plot Thickens...