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Need some help with Modular Plug and Touch Tone Key Pad

Started by LoveOldPhones, November 12, 2016, 05:30:32 PM

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LoveOldPhones

I been fooling around this afternoon with this 10 button touch tone phone I got.  The line cord was cut in the back and i have stripped away the wires .... no spades on the ends.

anyway.... I can't get it to break dial tone.... red green... red red....  nothing works.  when I have it hooked up red red.... when I push a button.... there is a tone.... but its the same tone for ALL the buttons.... and it kind of a strange sound.

anyway.... reversing the wires red green .... leaves the phone with NO tone when I press any button.

so.... any ideas what I can do ?
I am using one of those plastic modular plugs that you wire onto to plug into a phone jack.

I just finished doing a plug on a princess touch tone phone.... and it works great....
not sure whats going on with this 10 button 1500 phone.

thanks for any help.


AL_as_needed

Outside of the polarity being reversed (which you already tried by swapping L1 and L2) is there a way you can test the keypad on a known-to-be-good phone base/network? There is always the possibility of a bad tone generator in the keypad.

Or....and this happened to me on an early 2500, the line cord i made up for it had a break somewhere in it and caused both pairs to be active, causing a similar issue.
TWinbrook7

TelePlay

Quote from: AL_as_needed on November 12, 2016, 08:50:37 PM
Or....and this happened to me on an early 2500, the line cord i made up for it had a break somewhere in it and caused both pairs to be active, causing a similar issue.

Yes, if you are crimping on a modular connector, test each wire in the cord for continuity. It could be a bad crimp (pin misses the conductor) or a break in the wire. Use a DVM in resistance mode to check continuity of each conductor first. I've had two crimped mod connectors in a row before the 3rd worked. Can even happen with spade lugs, a bad crimp missing the inner conductor.

LoveOldPhones

OH dear.... I have NO idea how to do that.  I am just going to have to see if I can find someone to take it to and get it sorted out.
I was so proud of myself that I had done the plug on the princess phone....  I am so disappointed this didn't work today.

but thanks for your suggestions.
Oh well....  I will keep working on it till I can find someone down here in Texas that can help me.

TelePlay

What kind of plug are you using? Hardwired or crimped? Photos please.

LoveOldPhones

#5
I am using this kind of plug for the end of the line cord of the 10 button phone.....  I also used one on the princess touch tone and it worked great.
not working on the 10 button phone though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEPHONE-ADAPTER-HARD-WIRE-CONVERTER-TO-MODULAR-PHONE-/291935694872

?hash=item43f8b93018:g:EtMAAOSwPhdVHzaf

I have to give you a link.   I am sorry the camera on my phone is no good.  Its a just a plain old flip phone... and the camera is bad.
Anyway.... I have a few of these plugs.




TelePlay

Okay, hard wired. Then it could be a broken conductor in the cord or just not wired right. For a start, when you can, post photos of the inside of the mod adapter showing how you have it wired and the network inside the phone.

LoveOldPhones

Quote from: TelePlay on November 12, 2016, 11:44:20 PM
Okay, hard wired. Then it could be a broken conductor in the cord or just not wired right. For a start, when you can, post photos of the inside of the mod adapter showing how you have it wired and the network inside the phone.

If you look at the plug link I sent you.... I wired it the way it is in the picture.... I tried it red to red... then red to green.
AND... as I said.... red to red.... there was no tone when I pushed the button.... wired red  to green.... there is a tone....  but it is the same for all buttons.... and still will not break the dial tone.


LoveOldPhones

I have not changed anything inside the phone because I don't know what is connected to what... its confusing.
I don't really know what I am looking at.  maybe thats the problem

poplar1

If you draw dial tone, then the problem is not the cord or the new plug.

Whichever polarity produces some tone or tones -- rather than clicks -- when you press a button is the correct polarity.

Each button on the dial normally produces two tones.

If you press two adjacent buttons, you should hear only the one tone that is common to those two buttons:

1 and 2 pressed at same time
4 and 5
7 and 8. Etc.
* and 0

Each of the above combinations should produce a different low tone. Next,

1 and 4
2 and 5
3 and 6

Each combination should produce a different high tone.

Pressing any one button should produce two tones simultaneously. If there are two tones on every button, then the problem is likely that the tones are too far off their original frequency (after 50 years) to be recognized by the central office or other dial tone provider.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Jim Stettler

Just a guess on the touchpad issue.
Your touch pad may be broken or mis-tuned.  The discs on the back of the pad generate the tones. I have seen those disks split in half on 10 button sets (3 different sets) . I think they may of toughened them up for the 12 button pads.

JMO,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Victor Laszlo

#11
You have gotten yourself all confused, and received advice that does not address the problem. The plug is not the issue. Doesn't matter if it's hard wired,. crimped, or whatever.  As a general rule, when trouble-shooting, try to find out the basic symptoms first, then add the next steps. In your case, with a cord that has been cut off, you should have tested the phone using a couple of alligator clip leads, connected to a known-working line that supports DTMf.  The best way when trouble shooting old DTMF phones is to have a connecting block that is polarized correctly. That eliminates the first step of trying to figure out which polarity to use. At that initial point, you would have discovered that the dial is defective.  A working dial, when connected in the wrong polarity, will make the "same" tone using any button, a short clicking or bleeping tone.  When connected with the correct polarity, it will work, or it won't. It's that simple. 

Take a look at the rear of the dial. As Jim stated, the gray coils may have separated, causing the problem. It's common with old dials.

LoveOldPhones

Thanks everyone for your advice.  I don't have any idea how to fix this....   I don't have any equipment to do any tests and I sure don't know what most of what you are talking about is.   I can put on a plug...and swap wires if I know which ones they are.  but beyond that...  I'm sorry.... I just don't have
enough working knowledge to do anymore of this.

I don't know how many girls know about this kind of thing.... but... for me.... putting on a plug and changing the polarity is about as far as I have gotten.  lol   when my dad was alive.... he looked after all my old phones.  now that he's gone.... I have at least learned how to put a modular plug on a hard wired phone.  I have alot more to learn.... so  thanks for your help and suggestions.

AE_Collector

There are lots of things we can talk you through but since we aren't there, we need pictures. Maybe work on a way to do that as a priority so we can help you out with your phones. Does your cell camera completely not work or is it just a low resolution camera like many flip phones had leading you to call it no good? Low resolution pictures are generally perfect for posting here!

Digital cameras have been around for so long now that decent older used ones can be found at thrift stores for $10.

Terry

Victor Laszlo

It seems that you have already gone beyond the first step in trying to bring the phone back to life, by successfully installing a modular plug on the cord.

You state that the phone works, but the dial doesn't break dial tone. This implies that you do, indeed, hear dial tone from the phone. That is a good start. Since you hear dial tone, you may ignore all the discussion about whether the plug is the correct one, or if it has been installed correctly, or if there is a broken wire in the cord, etc.  You have gone beyond those concerns.

As I said above, in dealing with WE touch-tone dials, there are very few issues that can be corrected in the field, by folks who are not technicians.  Test one: do you hear dial tone (yes) Test two: does the dial make "abnormal" (clicking, bleeping, tinkling) noises when any button is depressed? (reversed polarity) Test three: does the dial make no tones at all, or do the tones fail to dial the correct telephone number? (dial is defective or out of adjustment.)

I believe that you unfortunately have a defective dial. You will need to send it to some telephone hobbyist who repairs them, or obtain a replacement dial.  There is man named Steve Hills (sp) who repairs rotary dials. I'm not sure if he repairs DTMF dials, too.