1956 RCA telephone. Yes, RCA... It's German-made - help????

[baldopeacock]

Awhile back, I picked up this phone on eBay.   It's NOS in the original box, bakelite housing and handset.   The condition is mint.





The hook for me was the RCA label and the part number, which is MI-14791.   RCA was big in the turnkey installation business for broadcasters.   RCA's equipment all had those MI-prefix numbers.   I've worked in two vintage RCA turnkey TV stations so I've seen a lot of this.  Like so:





What I believe this to be:  if RCA contracted for a turnkey radio or TV station build including telephone equipment, this was what they offered.   It's stamped "Made in Germany"  and W51 on the back, dated 11.56.



So my question is:  who made this thing for RCA?   The dial looks like PTT.   I was hoping someone would recognize this, I would imagine it was a common European phone.

I haven't opened up the phone or tried to connect it, so I have no idea whether it has a SL or freq ringer.

[JorgeAmely]

Interesting ...., does it need a PBX to operate or a standard POTS line will do it?   

[baldopeacock]

Got me, Jorge.   I haven't opened it up.   It's so minty that I hate to disturb it.  

Okay, scratch that -- here are a couple of pics of the inside.   Two schematics labels inside the case, in German.   The bells appear to be nickel plated.   Cool case design -- the cover is hinged.





Looks like POTS, there's a two-post barrier strip just above the line cord hole in the back.   The TV stations that I've worked in all had plenty of dedicated private lines for various functions, those lines bypassed any switching equipment serving the rest of the building - strictly engineering purposes.

The label tape on the box IDs the source as RCA Industrial Electronic Products, Camden NJ (which was RCA's lab and broadcast equipment manufacturing location).   The original shipping label is still on the box, it went to Sound Engineering in Omaha.

We had a 1948 RCA master catalog on the shelf in one station's shop (RCA built that place in '48), and the contents of the catalog would equip any new broadcasting plant practically down to the toilet paper.   I wish I could find a '56 RCA catalog.

[jsowers]

If this phone was indeed made in 1956, wouldn't it say "Made in West Germany" instead of "Made in Germany"? Or is the phone pre-war? And why use a German phone when there were plenty of manufacturers here in the USA? Maybe it was the way the phone mounted? And if it was for intercom or dedicated line use, why did it have a dial? Just strange.

Yes, one of those RCA catalogs might go a long way toward explaining this phone.

[dsk]

It looks like a Siemens for me.  
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1980&Itemid=2
This low ohm ringer may give a REN no of approx 2.5.
(Your may have different ringer coils)
The original 2 X 300 ohms coils in series with 1 uF capacitor is designed for 60V at 25Hz, but will work well at 90V 20-30 Hz.  
The parts will probably have the manufacters stamp.
dsk

[AE_Collector]

It looks 1956ish. It has the little white ground button usually associated with phones that can be used on European PBX's to get an outside line.

For the most part there weren't PBX proprietary phones back then. If they would work on a PBX they would work on a POTS line. There were some phones primarily designed to be on a PBX or other private system such as some of the AE phones. They were made a little bit cheaper since they didn't have to be able to work well on real long loops.

Since the elecronic phone age many and now most PBX phones are proprietary.

Terry

[dsk]

Terminal La = ring
Terminal Lb = tip

Since you  don't want use the ground button the polarity is not important.

(If you don't have a ground start line. )

dsk

[old_phone_man]

WOW!!

What a Time Capsule!

Nice Phone, Great Find.

[baldopeacock]

If this phone was indeed made in 1956, wouldn't it say "Made in West Germany" instead of "Made in Germany"? Or is the phone pre-war? And why use a German phone when there were plenty of manufacturers here in the USA? Maybe it was the way the phone mounted? And if it was for intercom or dedicated line use, why did it have a dial? Just strange.

Yes, one of those RCA catalogs might go a long way toward explaining this phone.

The internal components all show late 1956 date stamps.   Why it says "Germany" and not "West Germany" is above my pay grade.

A control room phone in a radio or TV station could have been used for a lot of functions - dialing in for remote audio via a coupler would be one.   RCA also built turnkey remote trucks, and if phone-ready was requested, this could have been RCA's response.   Lacking RCA's literature, I'm not sure why they marketed this.   One possible guess:   maybe they wanted the RCA "Meatball" on whatever product they sold, and WE/AeCO wouldn't oblige?  

I have never seen anything but WE and AeCO in the broadcast plants that I know.

[baldopeacock]

It looks like a Siemens for me.  
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1980&Itemid=2
This low ohm ringer may give a REN no of approx 2.5.
(Your may have different ringer coils)
The original 2 X 300 ohms coils in series with 1 uF capacitor is designed for 60V at 25Hz, but will work well at 90V 20-30 Hz.  
The parts will probably have the manufacters stamp.
dsk

Looks like you've got it.  It's a W51, same as shown on the linked page.

I'm guessing this was a common phone in the home market?

I see it as a curiosity.   Other than the RCA logo, it's probably an off the shelf Siemens phone, and I have no clue how common it was.   The RCA link is of possible interest to those who collect old broadcast equipment.   I don't imagine that they sold a lot of them.   It may end up back on eBay,  I need to do some downsizing around here.   Just a question of finding the right listing category other than "old black telephone".

[JorgeAmely]

It looks sweet indeed. And there is no fade at all on the white labels!!!

I think it is due for a phone call.

[GG]

That one was made by DeTeWe (Deutsche Telefon Werke). 

The key to that is: the number card retainer, with a larger area of black plastic above the number label than below it.  On some DeTeWe sets of that era, the name DeTeWe will be visible in white lettering in that area, where the RCA logo presently resides, but taking up the entire space above the number label (that is, it's not hiding behind the RCA logo). 

Siemens et. al. number card retainers were symmetrical above the vertical axis: they would look the same if you turned them upside down.  If you turned the DeTeWe retainer upside down, the number label area would appear toward the "top" of it. 

German wall sets of that era are for some reason relatively rare compared to the far more common W48 desk sets. 

I would regard the cradle on that phone as being relatively fragile compared to those found on the W48 desk sets, so treat it carefully and ask any guests who use it to do so as well. 

Great find, and congratulations. 

[teka-bb]

The Germans call it a 'stag beetle' (Hirschkäfer)

Officially it's a Type W51 telephone:

http://www.wasser.de/telefon-alt/datenbank/inhalt.pl?tin=&kategorie=1000257&begriff=w51

[GG]

If you follow Teka-bb's link and enlarge the photo, you'll see that the number label below the dial is of the more conventional shape, with the window centered vertically rather than offset downward as in the one pictured in this topic. 

Most German manufacturers did it the way shown in the link.   DeTeWe was the exception as shown in this topic.  Dial mechanisms varied slightly from one manufacturer to another as well.