Quote from: stub on December 12, 2012, 07:30:59 AM
Here's a diagram that might be useful. Left click twice on pic to enlarge.
stub
Hi Stub:
Here is a diagram of a very similar looking phone to the model 44 you show. This one began life as a magneto set before being changed over to a common battery set and the magneto being removed However, its diagram is damaged around the dial area - I would love to get more information about what the correct designation of this phone would be, as well as a drawing in better condition.
The lower text includes information on changing it over from magneto to common battery, and the magneto has been removed, leaving only the crank hole to its right.
I have re-done this slightly to re-add the missing portions and to clean up the drawing. Left click twice on pic to enlarge.
Dave
Note: This drawing is now completely verified, and the phone performs flawlessly on either local or common battery.
Quote from: DavePEI on July 08, 2013, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: stub on December 12, 2012, 07:30:59 AM
Here's a diagram that might be useful. Left click on pic to enlarge.
stub
Hi Stub:
Here is a diagram of a very similar looking phone to the model 44 you show. This one began life as a magneto set before being changed over to a common battery set and the magneto being removed However, its diagram is damaged around the dial area - I would love to get more information about what the correct designation of this phone would be, as well as a drawing in better condition.
The lower text includes information on changing it over from magneto to common battery, and the magneto has been removed, leaving only the crank hole to its right.
Dave
Ok, I have discovered more pertinent information on this phone stamped in orange on the underside
L 652 BO
J.C. 15
I.N.S. 6
Dave
Dave,
Do you have a copy of OLD-TIME TELEPHONES 2nd Edition by Ralph Meyer? I found your induction coil on pg. 145. Your phone looks like it could be one type of AE - 60 with AE's isolation circuit, pg 155 - 160. Picture of phone on pg. 245 . 1st one I've seen!! I have a Type - 60 local battery (Y1217 ) that does not have the wiring to convert it to common battery. NICE find!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: stub on July 08, 2013, 11:25:33 PM
Dave,
Do you have a copy of OLD-TIME TELEPHONES 2nd Edition by Ralph Meyer? I found your induction coil on pg. 145. Your phone looks like it could be one type of AE - 60 with AE's isolation circuit, pg 155 - 160. 1st one I've seen!! I have a Type - 60 local battery (Y1217 ) that does not have the wiring to convert it to common battery. NICE find!!!!!!!!!
Hi Stub:
Actually, I have two copies of Ralph's book but never thought to look at it. Yes, I thought it was neat the way it was made convertible to common battery. I got the drawing cleaned up much more, and it is a lot easier to follow now.
I would guess it was converted many years ago, but it was designed to be converted. I must have a look at the book tomorrow if I feel well enough to go over to the museum!
The numbering on it would be in keeping with type 60 or at least a variation... It is the first I have seen of this type - in fact when I purchased it, I thought it was a type 44.
Dave
Dave ,
Hope you get to feeling better!!!!!!! Thanks, stub
Hi Stub and all:
I think I have the AE 652 wiring diagram cleaned up as much as I can. When I bought the phone, the dial had been disconnected, and since the dial part of the internal schematic was obliterated, I wanted to make sure I had the phone working 100% before I fixed up the drawing to add the dial wiring to the damaged area. The dial area had previously been so discolored that it was impossible to see the wiring. So, it is all there now, although if I were better at Photoshop, I could have probably done a better job at recreating the dial portion.
Anyway, it is accurate, though a bit messy.
One interesting thing about that phone, is someone had installed a Switchcraft SPST toggle switch in the old magneto crank hole (at least they re-used the hole and didn't drill a hole), and connected it to the old magneto wires. This, of course, when the switch was toggled on, put a short across the line, making it effectively a "make busy" switch. I can't figure out why anyone would do that, unless they wanted it that way so they could turn on the switch, hang up the phone, and use that as a "hold" function.
This switch has of course been removed, and the magneto connections insulated from each other as they should be.
Anyway, certainly is an interesting phone...
Now, does anyone have a spare AE dial center for this? It is also missing one dial mounting screw. That is about all needed now to complete its restoration.
Also, wondering if anyone has an AE catalog listing showing this model - I would love to make an accurate determination of its age. It is remarkable preserved - almost no scratches, and though the outer paint had dulled, it was 100% intact, and a little rubbing compound restored its finish entirely.
Dave
Quote from: stub on July 10, 2013, 02:14:40 PM
Dave,
Glad you are up and going today. One question, are the 2nd and 5th hookswitch contacts supposed to be connected together going to the 1st contact on the pulsing springs? stub
Ok, you lost me there - which way are you counting the hookswitch contacts l-r or r-l?
Dave
Quote from: stub on July 10, 2013, 02:35:47 PM
Dave,
The connection I was asking about is a stray line on the 1st diagram. The green wire, from capacitor, looks like it is tied to the blk- wht going to the plusing springs. On the your last pic it is not connected. stub
Yes, it is.... Oh, I see what you are talking about - it isn't connected to the dial - Got'cha now. Yes, it is a photoshop error I didn't catch.. Told you I had only limited drawing ability in PS :) You have better eyes than I do!
Dave
Dave ,
;D Have a good day Sir!!!! stub
Quote from: stub on July 10, 2013, 03:02:49 PM
Dave ,
I'm on dial -up and my pic hasn't had time to load yet. ;D Have a good day Sir!!!! stub
Hi Stub:
Well, I am glad that you mentioned it - it just took me a little while to understand what you were trying to point out. I wish I could have found a better original drawing as my eyes and my PS ability are pretty poor. Great with photos,, but lousy with drawings :) If you note any other errors in it, please mention them to me, though it may take me a little while to understand which area you are talking about as it did this time. I do want it to be as accurate as possible, unfortunately, there were areas completely obliterated in the original.
Dave
Quote from: stub on July 11, 2013, 09:22:42 AM
Dave ,
Did you supply 3 volts DC to 5 and 6 ? Neg to 5 and pos. to 6 . Did you find your copy of Ralph's book ? Maybe pg. 159- 160 will help.
My 60 looks like yours but the induction coil was there but removed and no retardation coil and no wiring diagram.
When you get this one to working maybe I can get you to help me get this one working. stub
Hi Stub:
Yes, I am perusing Ralph's write-up right now.... Maybe I am mis-understanding something, though, but isn't the phone supposed to be able to get its power from a common battery line? (the whole idea of the arrangement:??) The drawing states if used common battery, omit the battery and move "X" to the L2 terminal.
I see Ralph's drawings where he shows a battery in series with the induction coil primary and mic element... Worth a try, though...
Dave
Quote from: stub on July 11, 2013, 09:47:50 AM
Dave ,
No dial on phones on pg. 159. The dial still looks like it is shunted when at rest.
Go back to reply 14. stub
That is why I wish I had an unadulterated original drawing for it.... But this was all I was left with. The dial itself is dialing well...
I'm missing something, but we will figure that out. I will tackle it again later on and see if I get anywhere. Of course when everything is 100%, I will again update the drawing if there are changes to be made.
Did you ever find an induction coil for yours? I notice yours is also a triple winding coil, but with different winding resistances from this one...
Time to take a break and will come back to it later!
Dave
Quote from: DavePEI on July 11, 2013, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: stub on July 11, 2013, 09:47:50 AM
Dave ,
No dial on phones on pg. 159. The dial still looks like it is shunted when at rest.
Go back to reply 14. stub
That is why I wish I had an unadulterated original drawing for it.... But this was all I was left with. The dial itself is dialing well...
I'm missing something, but we will figure that out. I will tackle it again later on and see if I get anywhere. Of course when everything is 100%, I will again update the drawing if there are changes to be made (Problem solved - see drawing above).
Did you ever find an induction coil for yours? I notice yours is also a triple winding coil, but with different winding resistances from this one...
Time to take a break and will come back to it later!
Dave
Hi Everyone. After some problems figuring out the dial wiring for this phone, we have all problems resolved, and the drawing has been updated.
The phone works 100% on the BK Analyzer, perfect dialing, perfect ring, perfect and loud audio, in fact one of my nicer sounding phones.
Thanks to Stub, who assisted me as we figured out the correct dial wiring. We did have it correct, only the crosswise shorting bar between the shunt springs and the shorting springs should not have been there.
The drawing is now 100% correct!
Still looking for a dial center for this phone. I have WE, but no AE.
Dave
Nice job, Dave!
Glad to hear it is performing properly.
Now if someone who is adept at photoshop could clean up both of these drawings and put them in our wiring section..........
Quote from: HarrySmith on July 13, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
Nice job, Dave!
Glad to hear it is performing properly.
Now if someone who is adept at photoshop could clean up both of these drawings and put them in our wiring section..........
Hi Harry:
Well, actually, it is in the wiring section, but I still would like to see a more cleaned-up copy for both. I have cleaned up the drawing for my AE 652 as much as I can, but love to see what one of our drawing experts could do with them!
Love that phone, and it is certainly unusual compared to the AE 44, because only one wire has to be moved, and it can be used local or common battery. Neat!
You can see by the scan below of the drawing as it was in the phone why I had trouble determinig the dial connections!
Dave
Dave,
GREAT JOB !!!!!! Now I can try to get parts and return mine to it's former glory. stub
Quote from: stub on July 13, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
Dave,
GREAT JOB !!!!!! Now I can try to get parts and return mine to it's former glory. stub
Sure hope you can find that induction coil - probably the hardest part to find! I'm sure you will!
Dave
Yea Dave, I can see now why it was hard to read! You have done a good job of cleaning it up but I think it could look better to be saved for future phone nuts ;D
Dave ,
Can you get a pic of the choke coil mounting bracket under the treminal strip? ;D It looks to be mounted to a short piece of 1" x 1" x 2 7/8" aluminum angle bolted under the terminal strip and the back of the dial with the new arrangement. Thanks, stub
Quote from: stub on July 13, 2013, 05:47:04 PM
Dave ,
Can you get a pic of the choke coil mounting bracket under the treminal strip? ;D It looks to be mounted to a short piece of 1" x 1" x 2 7/8" aluminum angle bolted under the terminal strip and the back of the dial with the new arrangement. Thanks, stub
Hi Stub:
Yes, it is, but I hesitate to un-mount mine, as I did by accident the other day, and it took me about an hour to get it remounted and screwed back on (getting the holes lined up well enough to re-start the screws). On the top side, there is a layer of insulating phenolic, as well. I will take a photo tomorrow with it in place and send it to you. It is held in place by the terminal strip screws which screw into it through the holes in the frame. The terminal strip, holes in the insulating strip, holes in the frame, and the tapped holes in the bracket need to be lined up perfectly to get the screws started. Once the first screw is in, the other one goes quite easily.
Dave
Dave,
I took mine apart and I see how it was mounted . Just a pic of the dial back will be fine. Thanks again, stub
Quote from: stub on July 13, 2013, 09:39:51 PM
Dave,
I took mine apart and I see how it was mounted . Just a pic of the dial back will be fine. Thanks again, stub
Ok, you got me a bit confused. Why do you need a photo for the choke and the dial. THe choke is mounted behind the terminal strip - see the second and third photo on the first page of this topic. Both the choke and the capacitor are mounted on the back or underside of the phone... No problem taking a photo of the back of the dial - its just I don't understand why you need that to figure out the choke mounting :), or is it just that you also want to see the back of the dial?
Dave
Dave,
I need to fabricate a mounting bracket for the choke coil , if I can find one, and see the back of the dial. I haven't seen that type of arrangement before. Cool phone !! stub
Quote from: stub on July 13, 2013, 10:55:58 PM
Dave,
I need to fabricate a mounting bracket for the choke coil , if I can find one, and see the back of the dial. I haven't seen that type of arrangement before. Cool phone !! stub
Well, I'll take photos of both in the morning when I go over to work in the museum...
Dave
Dave,
I found a drawing in AE Catalog , Replacement Part, Circular No.1712 A , 11-1953 ( I think) pg.10-11 of the choke coil bracket , # 50 in pic. D-731354-A . Thanks , stub
Quote from: stub on July 13, 2013, 11:58:46 PM
Dave,
I found a drawing in AE Catalog , Replacement Part, Circular No.1712 A , 11-1953 ( I think) pg.10-11 of the choke coil bracket , # 50 in pic. D-731354-A . Thanks , stub
Now that would be a helpful catalog to have - I have a later edition (Circular No. 1905), I think, but this one would cover an interesting time period... Yes, that is what the bracket would look like - I will send photos later...
Dave
Dave,
Thanks a million!!!! I appreciate it!!! Now the hunt begins ;D. stub
Has it been established by a document or other information that this is actually a Type 60 telephone. Or is it a variation of the Type 44?
The circuit shown in the diagram on Form D-53982-A is identical to that of the AE 40 Monophone, with the addition of the option to run it from a local battery and the addition of the generator, of course. In fact, the induction coil is the identical type used in the AE 40.
We had some discussions about the Type 60 here (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15155.0), and the cross-reference was made to this diagram.
What strikes me, is that it has the handset cradle of the Type 60, which places the back of the handset toward the front, not sideways, as in the Type 44.
Dave's phone came with a dial, it seems, but the original phone left the factory without a dial. The dial found is a later mod, and seems to be a type 51.
PS: I am a little confused where or how this topic started, it seems there is some previous history, or some posts are missing?