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Montgomery Wards Revenge

Started by AL_as_needed, March 18, 2018, 01:07:15 AM

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AL_as_needed

For some time now I have had a Montgomery Ward 8 band "Airline" radio. Technically speaking it works pretty good except for the annoying fact that the "slide rule" frequency indicator is inaccurate. Now a few points off would be fine enough but this is way off.... as in (for example) 96 MHz FM is tuned in (or recieved) when the pointer is at 104 MHz.

The radio receives the normal FM band no problem, just the band is now high frequencies at either end and the low frequency is innthw middle. And no, this isnt a St Pat's Day situation  ;D  I have tried to adjust the frequecy with the FM ocsilator but it only gets me an inch when i need a mile. Any suggestions? Could something have failed and causes a distortion?

TWinbrook7

paul-f

Quote from: AL_as_needed on March 18, 2018, 01:07:15 AM
... Technically speaking it works pretty good except for the annoying fact that the "slide rule" frequency indicator is inaccurate. Now a few points off would be fine enough but this is way off.... as in (for example) 96 MHz FM is tuned in (or recieved) when the pointer is at 104 MHz.

I'm not familiar with that  model, but recall from tinkering with radios in the 1960s and 70s that slide rule dials usually moved the pointer with a dial cord that connected the tuning knob to the tuning capacitor. It followed a long path so that an attached pointer would show the tuned frequency.

Needless to say, after several decades, the cord could fray or break and the pointer could slide down the cord and show the wrong frequency. If this could be one of your problems there are a bunch of YouTube videos that show how to fix things in different radio models. Watching one or two should give some ideas that would apply to your set. Search for something like "radio dial cord."
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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AL_as_needed

Paul,

I too had that thought and actually went so far as to take the guts out of the radio to adjust the tuning cord. Lucky me, it was more or less the first part they installed so the entire radio had to be taken apart to get to it from the back of the case.

Much to my frustration after all that work, I discovered the tuner only turns 180'. So I can make it accurate in terms of displaying the frequency, but in doing so I loose rotation on half of all bands  >:(

Is there a possible electrical issue causing the frequency issues?
TWinbrook7

paul-f

Most tuning capacitors were designed to only rotate 180 degrees (or less), so the plates can be either fully engaged or fully separated.

If the pointer only moves through half the dial range, there may be a mechanical problem with the cord stringing path. (Sounds like you won't be eager to look there again.  ;) )

Of course, vintage components are always susceptible to capacitor failure. There are topics on the forum covering this for PBXs and radios. Some recommend replacing all the old capacitors when refurbing or troubleshooting a vintage device.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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Dan/Panther

#4
Paul is right on, the dial can be re-positioned on those vintage radios.
What really gets me upset is when the dial cord breaks. Until you repair it, which usually requires taking the chassis out of the cabinet, The radio for the most part is stuck on the last station it was dialed to, and in those old radios that does not mean it's going to be tuned exactly, and may still be off a bit, the electronics do fluctuate a bit.
It doesn't get much better than talking on a candlestick, while listening to "Lights Out" on a vintage AM radio.

Every wonder where Atari got it Logo ? Maybe from this 1930's Philco tube radio.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

LarryInMichigan

Is this an AM/FM set?  If so, it will need to be aligned for both.  The FM tuning may be done with moving slugs, while the AM uses a variable capacitor.  Have you found the diagrams for the radio on nostalgiaair.org (or elsewhere)?  There may be alignment instructions there.  Aligning a radio is a semi-complicated procedure, and adjusting everything so that the dial pointer is correct for both AM and FM can be a bit challenging.  The best place to ask for advice on such matters in on the antiqueradios.com/ forums.  I have asked quite a few questions there and received some good help.  I could use help in curbing by desire to keep buying more radios though.

Larry


Dan/Panther

Larry;

Just like my phone collection, I have SEVERAL radios I have not yet taken out of the box after being delivered YEARS ago.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

LarryInMichigan

Quote from: Dan/Panther on March 18, 2018, 11:27:42 AM
Larry;

Just like my phone collection, I have SEVERAL radios I have not yet taken out of the box after being delivered YEARS ago.

D/P

All of mine have come out of their boxes, but there are some that have been waiting a while to be restored.  I do have somewhere in the vicinity of 100 of the working though.  When you are really bored, you can watch some of them playing: youtube link.

Larry

paul-f

Quote from: LarryInMichigan on March 18, 2018, 11:22:06 AM
I could use help in curbing my desire to keep buying more radios though.

Simple -- Buy more phones!  8)
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

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AL_as_needed

Quote from: paul-f on March 18, 2018, 12:41:33 PM
Simple -- Buy more phones!  8)

Dittio!

This radio is not much beyond the 70s or early 80s. The indicator "string" and all that pulley nonsense is actually in great shape despite my mucking around in there. After all was said and done I returned everything to its original orientation (the pointer) as it was the olny position that allowed everything to move the full range of the bands.

Larry: Both the AM and FM bands can be adjusted with small oscillators (?) and a tiny screwdriver. I can improve the position some that way, but its still way off. I briefly thought there was a polarity issue or something as its that bi-polar..... Thanks for the links tho, ill check them out when I  have the radio in  front of me again.
TWinbrook7

19and41

You might want to find out if your unit has AFC on your FM.  If it does, the AFC will try to correct from whatever you align it to.  Sort of like trying to set the timing on a mechanical ignition engine with the vacuum advance still connected.  For the newer units, You might want to check at Steve Johnsons' site for a Sams folder for it.  It would give the procedure for disabling the AFC to line it up.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

19and41

I wanted to mention since I responded to this thread I have worked with 3 Magnavox FM receivers that perform exactly like Al's Airline, with the highs at top and bottom surrounding the lows.I have tried and tried in vain to correct it but the FM discriminator will not correct.  It will move a bit, but that is it.  On these units, the discriminator is in a module that is impossible enough to open that doing so would require damaging them.  I just wanted you to know that yours is not the only one with this problem.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

Dan/Panther

I'm not sure I understand him correctly. Is he saying he adjusted the dial by moving it manually until he got it to travel from one end to the other, then turn the RF cans to try to match the radio to the dial  ?
This is NOT the way to do it. If you do, Chances are the cans will not be able to be adjusted to the proper signal frequency. You need to set the radio to a known station, then adjust the dial to match the station. THEN you can fine tune the Cans.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

AL_as_needed

Quote from: 19and41 on September 11, 2018, 05:16:30 PM
I wanted to mention since I responded to this thread I have worked with 3 Magnavox FM receivers that perform exactly like Al's Airline, with the highs at top and bottom surrounding the lows.I have tried and tried in vain to correct it but the FM discriminator will not correct.  It will move a bit, but that is it.  On these units, the discriminator is in a module that is impossible enough to open that doing so would require damaging them.  I just wanted you to know that yours is not the only one with this problem.

I worked on my radio for several hours, even to the point of de-soldering the board to really get at it, but with little improvement.  As an example I used a few known stations as a marker. My area classical radio station is 88.7/88.9 FM (wmht), which is sitting on 101-ish area even after toying with the radio trying to adjust everything. I did notice that sometimes the radio "walks" a bit up or down from time to time. For now I gave up until I can get a solid fix for it.

Quote from: Dan/Panther on September 12, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
I'm not sure I understand him correctly. Is he saying he adjusted the dial by moving it manually until he got it to travel from one end to the other, then turn the RF cans to try to match the radio to the dial  ?
This is NOT the way to do it. If you do, Chances are the cans will not be able to be adjusted to the proper signal frequency. You need to set the radio to a known station, then adjust the dial to match the station. THEN you can fine tune the Cans.
D/P

And no this is not what was done with my set (although suggested). Being a newer set the cans only move within a fixed rotation, adjustments can be made by changing an osculating diode (?), but that only buys you a few points on the dial max. The real issue isnt so much the tuning cans or the pointer, but an electronics issue.   
TWinbrook7

AL_as_needed

So made an odd discovery this evening: Turned the radio on expecting it to be on or close to the station I had last set it on and was met with static. I adjusted the dial and found that now all the known stations are right where they should be in relation to the slide-rule display. Only change that was made was the radio was unplugged for a bit (about a day) and plugged back into a different outlet. I am wondering (since its an older plug on the radio) that maybe it is polarity specific? Or allowing it to discharge for several hours somehow reset something?
TWinbrook7