The Dead Princess

[vivi]

Hi there. I am a newbie here and in the world of phone collecting so please bear with me as I might sound very ignorant. 

ISSUE: I am desperately trying to make a dead Princess phone (702B dated 9-69) come to life.  No dial tone, no incoming nor outgoing calls...she's dead.

WHAT I DID WHEN I RECEIVED PHONE FROM SELLER: (UNAWARE THAT IT MIGHT BE DOA)..... In order to be able to use the phone in my house, I bought a 4 wire half modular cord to rewire the phone thereby making it modular (so I can plug it into my wall). I removed the original cord (hard wired) and put the new one in its place (taking care to put each color wire where it originally was).

CONTINUED:  The phone came with the original 5 wire (hard wired) cord and I bought a "half modular" cord which has 4 spade wires on one end and a modular plug on the other. Of course I was missing 1 wire -the white one- But  I read on the porticus website that I should put the yellow wire were the white one used to be (on the transformer). So I did.

RESULT: I does nothing. She looks pretty but that's it.  I will take the advice given to me to just reinstall the original 6 wire cord and buy an adaptor for it. However, in theory, shouldn't it work with this cord too? I'd love to make it work with this cord and THEN continue spending money on it and keep it with it's original cord and an adaptor.

Any input, ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Here are the pictures of the wiring with new cord as she is now:

[vivi]

I'm sorry about the pictures' quality... if I need to take a specific picture that you don't see here that would help "diagnose" my phone's problems...please tell me and I'll take it and post right away.
thanks!
Vivi

[Phonesrfun]

Vivi:

Welcome to the forum.

Without looking at all the wires and where on the network they are connected, at least the red and green line cord wires seem to be proper.  Red and green are for talking and ringing, so provided they are connected to L1 and L2 on the network, you should be working, unless there was a problem with the phone to begin with.  There are schematics available on the TCI website if you can follow a schematic to see if the network and all the various wires from the hookswitch, ringer, handset, and dial are connected to the correct point.  It is hard to tell by any photo where they are going or cominng from because there are wires of the same color in a Princess that serve different purposes.  For instance, there is a black ringer wire, a black handset wire, a black line cord wire, and a black hookswitch wire.  All need to be validated to their respective places individually, because none of them connect to each other.

Also, the hookswitch could have been knocked out of adjustment, or the dial pulse contacts could be open.  Neither of those are likely, but possibilities.

Hopefully the receiver and transmitter elements are in the handset and connected.  Also, this may sound like a *duh*, but make sure the jack you are plugging the phone into is operable.

If you need some more detailed instructions of what wires from which component connect to which terminals, we can help you with that too.

However, just from the photos you have sent, nothing looks out of place.

[Dan]

Welcome VIVI, Bill will get you to the promised land, he has done that for me a lot of times . Is is rare to find a dead western electric anything, but it can happen. Is the outlet you are using to test the princess  currently being used by another working phone? Your phone line you bought should work with the princess without having to change back.

[Dennis Markham]

Vivi, Welcome to the Forum!

Reading a schematic can be very difficult.  At least for my pea-brain.  Although checking the schematic will let you know the proper way to wire the telephone.  The TCI website Bill was referring to can be found here:

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/library/

To view your phone just scroll down to Western Electric and follow that to the Princess phones.

I will try and simplify your effort here by starting you out with the basic wiring.  I just opened up one of my 702B models that has the same network as yours.  Check your connections against what I put here.  To begin with I'm just going to give you wiring instructions for the main components.  The dial, handset,  and line cord (mounting cord).  As far as the line cord is concerned, for now just connect Red and Green.  The other two don't need to be taped off as they are for the lamp, but you can isolate them if you want.  

If these don't get your phone working, we'll do the ringer and switch wires later.  They are difficult to trace and unlikely they were moved, at least the ringer wires.  Someone may have moved a switch wire.

Grab a good magnifying glass (that's what I had to do) and just follow your wires.  Be careful that wire spade tips are not touching tips from another terminal.  It's OK for the RED and WHITE for example from the handset to touch because they're going to the same terminal.  Also make sure wires do not interfere with the function of the switch.  Also check that none of the spade tips are shorting out against the metal frame.

Here we go:

Dial

Blue Wire - To Terminal F
Green Wire - To Terminal RR
White Wire (Either one) - To Terminal R
White Wire (Other one) - To Terminal GN

Handset Cord

Black Wire - To Terminal B
Red Wire - To Terminal R
White Wire (Either One) - To Terminal R (Along with Red Wire)
White Wire (Other One) - To Terminal GN

Mounting Cord (Line Cord)

Red Wire - To Terminal L2
Green Wire - To Terminal L1

If these three components are wired correctly, as mentioned by Bill there can also be other issues.  The dial contacts may be bent, switch contacts bent, etc.

If you have these connected properly plug in the phone to a known, working phone jack.  If you do not hear a dial tone, continue to trouble shoot.  If you have a cell phone call your house number and see if the phone rings.  Dial you cell phone even though you don't hear a dial tone.  If it dials out and receives in-coming calls the problem can be with your handset cord or the receiver element itself.  Open up the receiver cap and look at the U1 element.  Are the wires connected?  

Let us know when you get to this point.

[HarrySmith]

Welcome
I do not have any advice to add on your Princess right now, you have plenty already to start with
Be careful, phones are addictive

[vivi]

Hello everyone! Thank you all for your advice! I am ready to follow instructions, lupe in hand (Dennis), coffee near by, websites pulled up and I am ready. 

Bill, I will look up my phone and trace all wires but first I will do the basics Dennis wrote out for me here...let's see if I can hit the jackpot here.

So, we know green and red are good so.....

The phone jack I used to test the phone (I tried two actually) is good since other phone(s) work on it.  It does have the dsl plug thingy on it.. does that matter?

I will start with Dennis' steps now and I will post my findings in a few.
thanks everyone!

p.s. about the addiction of phones..... I just bought 2nd Princess on Ebay .... shiny red 702bm.....  .... will show it to y'all when it arrives... hopefully in working condition not like this pretty white princess here.... 

[Phonesrfun]

The DSL filter will not interfere with the phone.  In fact, without it, you would hear DSL noises in the phone, and the phone itself would interfere with your internet connection.

Have fun with the project.

[vivi]

From Dennis' list.. my results after each one.... red answers good, blue answers not matching / need assistance:

Here we go:

Dial

Blue Wire - To Terminal F YES
Green Wire - To Terminal RR YES
White Wire (Either one) - To Terminal R YES
White Wire (Other one) - To Terminal G NO. The second white wire goes to lower GN screw and it's alone there. Move it to G with a black   wire that's already there?

Handset Cord

Black Wire - To Terminal B YES
Red Wire - To Terminal R  YES
White Wire (Either One) - To Terminal R (Along with Red Wire) YES
White Wire (Other One) - To Terminal GN  YES

Mounting Cord (Line Cord)

Red Wire - To Terminal L2 YES
Green Wire - To Terminal L1 YES

RESULTS: ONE DIAL white WIRE NOT MATCHING.

[vivi]

So excited 

I just COULDN'T WAIT FOR RESPONSE SO CHANGED the white dial wire to G and VOILA! now it gives me dial tone AND receives calls!

..................BUT WAIT!

that's all   
NO ringing
NO dialing out at all.

Any other ideas? Go to Bill's recommended website now?
please advice 
thanks!

[Phonesrfun]

Dennis's description was misleading, but an innocent mistake, since GN and G are similar, and in some older phones, WE has changed their terminals over time. 

He meant GN, not G.  If you move the white wire back to GN, and the phone is not working, that tells me that the dial shunting springs may not be properly open when the dial is at rest.

The dial shunting springs short out the receiver when the dial is off normal and in movement.  This keeps the user from hearing the loud popping as the dial pulses the circuit.

Follow the white wires to the back of the dial to the two contacts (springs) that they are attached to.  There should be an off-normal pawl attached to the large gear that pushes up against these springs and opens them when the dial is at rest.  When you operate the dial, this should go off-normal and close the two contacts together.  When the dial comes to rest, those springs should open back up. 

If they never so open, they may need to be adjusted.  Otherwise the receiver circuit will always be shorted out and you will not hear anything.

Take a look at that.  Then we can address the part about not dialing and ringing.

[vivi]

Dennis's description was misleading, but an innocent mistake, since GN and G are similar, and in some older phones, WE has changed their terminals over time. 

He meant GN, not G.  If you move the white wire back to GN, and the phone is not working, that tells me that the dial shunting springs may not be properly open when the dial is at rest.

The dial shunting springs short out the receiver when the dial is off normal and in movement.  This keeps the user from hearing the loud popping as the dial pulses the circuit.

Follow the white wires to the back of the dial to the two contacts (springs) that they are attached to.  There should be an off-normal pawl attached to the large gear that pushes up against these springs and opens them when the dial is at rest.  When you operate the dial, this should go off-normal and close the two contacts together.  When the dial comes to rest, those springs should open back up. 

If they never so open, they may need to be adjusted.  Otherwise the receiver circuit will always be shorted out and you will not hear anything.

Take a look at that.  Then we can address the part about not dialing and ringing.

Okay Bill, bear with me as I explain to you what I see....

the 2 white wire go back to the dial and end in the contacts you mention.  These are two long leggy looking things that you are calling springs..right? Okay if I am looking at the correct springs, these NEVER OPEN when I turn the dial. In fact the other two long leggy thingies (springs) coming from the blue and green wires don't open either.  There is an orange plastic lever that rotates when I turn the dial.  Is there a way to adjust these? There is a clear soft plastic cover that cover the back of the dial and the mechanism, how do I remove this w/out breaking it to work on the springs?

sorry if goofy terminology used. 

I'll wait for your answer to continue. THANKS A MILLION FOR YOUR HELP!!

[Phonesrfun]

Vivi:

I am at work, so I can only come back to the discussion as time permits.  The two lon leggy things are what I am referring to as springs.  The springs attached to the two white wires need to separate (open) from the contact with the orange lever when the dial is at rest.  Otherwise the receiver is shorted out continuously.  I or someone else can send you a photo of how those springs should look, and perhaps they got bent out of shape from where they need to be and need to be bent back, but maybe some back and forth photos would be in order.  I just cannot do photos until I get home tonight.

The springs attached to the green and blue wires are the pulse spriings.  They should remain closed (together) at all times, except when the dial is returning.

When the dial winds down (returns) the pulse springs should be opened and closed by the action of the rotating cam.  One open and close action representing each number dialed.  So, if a 5 is dialed, the springs should open and close (pulse) 5 times before the dial comes to rest and the receiver shunt springs are opened by the orange lever.

The fact that you cannot break dial tone and if those dial pulse springs are always closed, even on dial wind-down, and the fact that the shunt springs are continuously closed suggests that perhaps the dial spring mechanism has been tampered with or somehow knocked out of line.

A good photo of the back of the dial showing the orientation of the springs would be very helpful at this point.

[vivi]

Thanks Bill! I am sorry... I forget that it's Friday and people are working... goofy me; sorry.
Okay, the good news is I fiddled with the springs that are supposed to be opened by the orange lever and got them to open and close when dialing and BINGO: PHONE WORKS!!! I put the white wire back to GN as you said as well.
Thanks so much!!!!! I will post pics later anyhow so you can see how i left it (in case I just messed it up worse!).  I too will be out of pocket for next few hours but will post later today what the back of dial looks like now so you can give me your opinion. Have a great rest of the day!

Again ... deeply appreciate your guidance and time.
take care,
Vivi

[Dennis Markham]

Vivi and Bill, I just got back home and am catching up with the posts.  Bill, I see my typo where I put G instead of GN. Duh, it sure helps if someone gives the right information!  Thank you for fixing that.

Sounds like Vivi has her phone working now so I won't add photos of the dial contacts, unless Vivi you still need them.

Sorry to add to the confusion.  I'm going to revisit my initial entry and make the correction for future use.

By the way, when I sat down to catch up (before reading that Bill caught my typo) I read where Vivi had a conflict with that terminal.  I looked at my handwritten notes and sure enough I saw where I had written GN.  Before I could change it I saw that you had corrected it.  So eventually we would have gotten it right.....thanks to Bill it was sooner rather than later.