Japanned Finish anyone?

[Mark S]

I finally have the wiring corrected and will begin to disassemble the pictured SC phone.  The catalog shows this, when new, as having a Japanned Finish.  I have a recipe for the mixture and just received my can of asphaltum.  Looking to see if anyone has done an authentic Japan finish and any advice they may pass on.  My cooking will be done in a temperature regulated toaster oven.  Thanks in advance,
Mark

[Dan/Panther]

Are you referring to a Parkerized finish, or a wrinkle type finish or ?  I'm not familiar with Japanned finish.

D/P

[Mark S]

I wasn't familiar either and had to research it.  It was our grandfather's answer to powder coat.  It's a turpentine and linseed oil based mixture with asphaltum.  After it is mixed and brushed it is baked.  I have never done it, and although it sounds doable on paper, I though I'd pick some brains if anyone had attempted this. 
Mark

[Dan/Panther]

Personally it sounds like a Tar coating. I would say unless you get it exactly right, you will be possibly getting into a tacky finger print covered phone. Just spray paint it, or have it powder coated.
No one will know the difference.
JMHO.

D/P

[FABphones]

Japanning is a nice highly glossed black finish. Oriental origins. Many antiques have the finish.

Editing to add I found this thread detailing a japanning trial (try a search on here, there are other threads on this topic). There are a couple of pdf files attached to the thread too which you might find useful, one of which is a handbook on japanning:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14198

And if you haven't seen these already, I found a couple of vids for you:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SBqgpdBNrt8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zNItdQlk4

[Western Bell]

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11853.0

[Ktownphoneco]

Japan black, Japan Lacquer and I may be missing one or two additional descriptions, is an old finish that's been around for a long time.     It wasn't all that well known until Mr. Henry Ford started using it to paint the Model "T's" rolling off the assembly line.     It was what Mr. Ford was referring to when someone asked him if the Model "T's" were available in colors.      His reply was, "Yes, people can have any color they want as long as it's black".     Henry Ford was looking for a finish that was durable and easy to keep clean, which turned out to be exactly what Western Electric and other telephone makers were looking for when they started producing metal telephones.    Western started painting their desk stands and metal subsets in Japan Lacquer, and continued doing so when they introduced the metal case 302's.  Most other telephone manufacturers used the same finish on their metal telephones as well.   

I really don't think you will be happy with the "homemade" Japan black finish, and if you bake it on, and the experiment goes sideways, you'll be in for a lot of work getting it off.    The Japan black or Japan lacquer is impervious to most paint removers, and requires either hand sanding or sand blasting to get it off.     I have no idea how the home made concoction will react to paint remover.

I have all my metal sets powder coated, and the finish is a close match to Japan Black.    If you decide to go with a powder coat, and you can find a powder coat company in your area, tell the person your dealing with to pre-heat the metal telephone first, and for about 20 to 30 minutes.     It will get rid of the "off gases" that normally occur from pot metal and aluminum.    Let it cool, spray the powder coat onto the telephone and then send it to the oven for baking for the normal time period.    That way you will avoid the bulbs in the powder coat that occur from "off gassing".

Jeff Lamb

[Jack Ryan]

Are you referring to a Parkerized finish, or a wrinkle type finish or ?  I'm not familiar with Japanned finish.

D/P

Most US desk stands and metal wall phones (that were black) were japanned. I think black japanned telephones predate the Model T Ford.

Jack

[countryman]

I really don't think you will be happy with the "homemade" Japan black finish, and if you bake it on, and the experiment goes sideways, you'll be in for a lot of work getting it off.   

The recipe in the thread linked by Western Bell mentions some obscure ingredients containing lead and cobalt. These are probably banned and unavailable today. Chances are, these are essential for quality japanning. At least extensive trials would be recommendable. A good product seems to be a market niche in the antique business...

It seems what is called Japan Black itself is a "western" replacement for old far eastern techniques using plant extracts. It was developed for industrial mass production earlier than the more modern enamels and paint coatings.

[Dan/Panther]

Like I said, the formula for doing the finish,  sounds very much similar to plain old tar. If you do it right, GREAT, but if you do it wrong OOPS.

JMHO.

D/P

Here is another formula for the process.

http://www.cranialstorage.com/Wood/japanning.html

[Dan/Panther]

I do a lot of antique type restorations on radios, Telephones, Tinplate trains, and restoration of guitars.
The forums I belong to most all of the members lean towards the original formulations used for finishes, coloring, gluing etc.
I find this somewhat hard to accept on it's face.  Many will argue for example that NOTHING beats Hot Hide Glue for guitars.
Hide glue for it's time was a superior glue. However does anyone REALLY believe that over the past few hundred years, with all of the science developments in chemistry and new discoveries that Hot Hide Glue is still the best glue for wood ? Or that Shellac is the best finish ? Sure if you want everything original that is the route you take, but for simple best product fore the job, it's hard to beat Polyurethane, Nitrocellulose was good for it's day, but if you look at a guitar for example made in the mid 20th century, you will be hard pressed to find one that does not look like a clear road map. So to cover up the flaw, people say it's a cool look and adds patina to the finish, I don't think so, it's a product that has failed the test of time, like Hide glue, it become brittle and cracks.
The phenomenon of the Stradivari violins has sent them into the millions of dollars category. However recent tests have shown, that instrument for instrument even the greatest violinists prefer the modern  high end  built violins. Of course we all love the historic forerunners. But I think today even though we do not practice it, we have the ability to make superior protects. We just choose not to for greedy reasons.
I worked for General Motors at their Delco division building batteries, we have the technology to built a lifetime battery, but like the upper brass say, "We aren't stupid".
WE CAN DO IT,  BUT WE DON'T, AND WE WON'T.

D/P

Here is a link to one of the studies.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check





 

[19and41]

Dan, If you don't mind my asking, At which Delco plant did you work ?

[andre_janew]

I've heard a similar story from another guy who also worked at a Delco plant  that made batteries.  I've also heard that Delco makes car batteries for Walmart.

[Dan/Panther]

Dan, If you don't mind my asking, At which Delco plant did you work ?

I worked at Plant #13 in Anaheim, Ca. The plant opened in 1952. Shut down around 2006.

D/P

[Dan/Panther]

I've heard a similar story from another guy who also worked at a Delco plant  that made batteries.  I've also heard that Delco makes car batteries for Walmart.

I was in the maintenance department, The plant manager made that comment to us one day off the record.

D/P