Using a BK Precision 1045A, with the receiver to my ear, and the switch hook depressed, I hear nothing when I switch the 1045A on. I can get the unit to ring. If I have the switch hook released and the receiver to my ear when I turn the the 1045A on, I get a moment of dial tone and then silence in my ear and the ringer rings as though the switch hook were depressed.
I have replaced the handset cord and proven that I can get a dial tone to the receiver by using the receiver and handset cord combination on another Kellogg set using the same 1045A and the telephone works properly.
This unit is so clean on the inside that it looks unused...perhaps it IS unused BECAUSE it had an issue!
I can't get the unit to get a dial tone to the handset except for that brief moment when the 1045A is first switched on with the switch hook released.
Any suggestions as to what to try next?
Also, the shell on this phone has a push button on it, but it was not connected to anything when I received it. Any info on what it is intended for?
I am reviewing the Kellogg 1000 series handbook now, but nothing so far...
Thanks,
Nick
have you looked over the hook switches?
The button on the shell indicates that the shell was for a Select-O-Phone. If the parts on the base are also for a Select-O-Phone, you will not be able to make the phone work on a standard phone line. I do not recall how to tell if the parts are for a standard phone or a Select-O-Phone.
Larry
RB,
I had looked at the switch hook switches and they appear to be fine, but I am not sure that I could tell if there was a subtle problem there.
Larry,
Thanks for the heads-up about the shell indicating that it might be a Select-O-Phone. I will see what I can learn about them. I did see in the Kellogg 1000 Series handbook that there are some that have a push-to-talk button, but I have not found a schematic for those yet. Was the push-to-talk button was only on the Select-O-Phone series?
Off to see what I can learn about Select-O-Phones!
Thanks,
Nick
The ringer is not for a select-o-phone. I have seen many of those kellogg sets with bad contacts in the handset handle
I was able to successfully use the handset/cord combination with another Kellogg Redbar moments before trying it with this phone.
Anything else you can think of for me to try? Perhaps I will find another receiver/cord combination and try that as well...
Nick
Here is a select-o-phone thread: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15864.msg166602#msg166602 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15864.msg166602#msg166602)
On the plug in modules, it should be some number or id, can you read them, and tell us?
dsk
DSK,
Thank you for the link, it was helpful.
I have taken a photo that shows the code numbers on the components. Maybe it will tell someone something...
On the plug in coil, (the shortest module) ery you able to read a number like 113A , 114A or something?
The other module should only contain 3 capacitors.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/kellogg/1955-type-1000-telephones-redbar-k1000-tl/file
dsk
In the third photo, it appears that the bare metal strap on top left (to the right of the handset cord terminals) is not fully seated. On manual sets, this strap takes the place of the plug-in dial cord.
Is this what you are referring to? Circled in Red.
Also I noticed a Black wire disconnected. Circled in Yellow.
OOPS. Picture added
Is it 2 cords attached on the left side + 1 line cord on the right?
dsk
Dsk,
I had not even noticed the identifiers on the tops of the coil and the condenser before. Yes, there is an identifier of 114A on the coil and 225 on the condenser. Yes, I had the old line cord disconnected, but still clamped to the phone when I took the first photos. The line cord was connected on the upper right.
Poplar1,
The jumper to the right of the handset cord terminals is securely seated in the holes for contacts 2 and 4. It has a triangular shape above the two vertical legs that fit into the connection block.
Harry,
I can't see your photo with circles, but when I took that photo I still had the original handset cord secured to the phone. The connectors were all tucked away so they couldn't make trouble, but perhaps that is what you saw?
I have attached photos that might make things clearer. (They certainly show the dust clearly!)
Does anyone know of a resource that might tell us what the ES 4171-1 code on the bottom of the unit might indicate?
Thanks for your time and assistance!
Nick
I looked around and found a coil marked 113-A as it is indicated in Figure 1 of the schematic linked by DSK.
I put it into the phone and tested it with the BK 1045A tester and it worked!
The dial tone seems quiet, but it is there. I will try another handset to see if there is a problem with the handset I am using or if the dial tone is quiet for some other reason. (I can't test the handset now due to other commitments, but I will try to get to it later in the day.)
Thanks!
Nick
Nice to hear :D The 113A is for regular CB!
I guess moving the plugs made better contact, and it could probably be repeated some times.
That may also be with the strap in the 4 hole jack for rotary dial plug.
Moving the 3 position link may give better or worse sound depending on the line loop length or voltage.
Could be nice to hear about the further development.
dsk
I have tried moving the link between the two positions to change the capacitance but do not detect any change in the volume of the dial tone.
It is loud enough to work with, but not as loud as some.
I have not had a chance to try another handset or receiver on it yet. I will let you know if it makes a difference.
Nick
You might pull the bakelite chassis out of the telephone and look underneith for bad solder joints..Also look for soldered jumper wires . Those are indications of a chasssis for an intercom set
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 17, 2018, 12:31:05 AM
I have tried moving the link between the two positions to change the capacitance but do not detect any change in the volume of the dial tone.
It is loud enough to work with, but not as loud as some.
I have not had a chance to try another handset or receiver on it yet. I will let you know if it makes a difference.
Nick
Are you talking about Link #2?
Link 1 (L2 - GRD) and Link 3 (5 - 3 - 4) are for the ringer.
Poplar1,
Yes, I was moving the incorrect link. DSK had suggested moving the 3 position link, and I immediately converted that in my head to Link-3. I will see if changing the position of Link-2 makes a difference. (I did try another handset and there was no noticeable change in the dial tone.
I just now tried the various positions for Link-2 and, again, heard no noticeable difference in the volume of the dial tone.
Rdelius,
I took the bakelite wiring chassis out and looked underneath and nothing looked out of order. It looked to me (without much to go on) as though it was factory fresh. I have attached a photo, but the reflections might make it hard to see well. I could try setting up different lighting and taking a photo with no flash if you think that would assist.
Is it possible that the fact that Link-2 being moved to each of the three possible positions with no noticeable change in dial tone volume tells us that there is something else wrong?
Thanks to all for your suggestions, knowledge and patience!
Nick
Well, with the information I have gathered so far in this forum thread, I went ahead and tested several of the Masterphone 1000 series that I received when I purchased the large lot of phone recently. (I have probably gone through fewer than half so far...!)
It seems that all of those on which I can get a dial tone to come up, it is about the same volume as it has been on the phone discussed previously. So, until informed otherwise, I will assume that tells me that that volume is what is to be expected. (I should mention that as a result of too much playing in a rock band, I wear hearing aids and perhaps they just don't like the Kellogg receiver output.)
In going through some of the Masterphones on the shelf, I came across a couple that puzzle me...One has a clear hook switch bar instead of the expected red one, and one has a turn lever on the left right side that says "Press to Talk or Dial". I don't know what differences to look for on the unit with the clear hook switch bar and I have not yet found a description of, model number for or schematic for the example with the Press to Talk or Dial lever. I have looked through a couple Kellogg publications but have not found anything yet.
Photos of both of the above are available if they would help.
Thanks,
Nick
I have a lot of parts for these phones,I just found a whole case of the plug in modules. Push to talk was used in noisey locations. I just found push to talk wall housing in Kellogg. I have found several of these phones in color in the past each one had a clear bar. These sets in color do the same thing the Norths do which is turm a shiney slate color over time. The green and the blue fade to slate black. All you have to do is restore the color by buffing. You can tell if it's a colored set by looking inside.
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 20, 2018, 06:26:29 PM
one has a turn lever on the left right side that says "Press to Talk or Dial".
This was used on party lines. You could first listen to make sure no one was dialing or talking, and that there was no incoming ring. (Ringing for a different party would not activate ringers tuned to a different frequency.)
Payphone Installer,
At some point in the future I might see if you want to offload any of the 113A coils for these phones so that I might be able to sell off a couple of the Redbars as working phones (they don't seem to want to work with the 114A coils).
Also, have you ever seen a black "Redbar" with a clear hook switch bar? Perhaps it was just put in during a refurb, but it seems surprising that with so few colored units out there that a clear bar would end up in a black phone just by chance.
Poplar1,
Do you know where one might find a schematic for Masterphones with the Press to Talk or Dial lever?
I have not found a schematic with that or the press to talk button that is on a few of the phones I have here.
Nick
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 20, 2018, 06:26:29 PM
(I should mention that as a result of too much playing in a rock band, I wear hearing aids and perhaps they just don't like the Kellogg receiver output.)
I guess you are right, these are pretty well covered, and the electromagnetic fields are not great. I guess you have to put in a more modern receiver, and that will be a little tricky with those contacts.
dsk
Have you tried turning the receiver diaphragm the other way up - it can make a difference.
Also just loosening the cap a tiny bit can help.
:)
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on May 21, 2018, 05:43:07 PM
Poplar1,
Do you know where one might find a schematic for Masterphones with the Press to Talk or Dial lever?
I have not found a schematic with that or the press to talk button that is on a few of the phones I have here.
I haven't been able to locate anything on this. Stromberg-Carlson included this feature available on every
1243 as an option (bend a tab and rewire the hookswitch), with instructions included on the paper included inside the phone.
There is a booklet in the TCI library that includes troubleshooting of the 1000 model (aka redbar). Interesting, but no mention of the push to talk or dial feature.
In theory, the idea is that when going off-hook, the transmitter is disconnected until the button is pressed. But the secondary circuit including the receiver and capacitor are connected.
There is a 1948 booklet entitled "Kellogg Masterphone Catalog 1000 Series." Page 18 [19th page of the file] shows diagram # 21258 (Figure 1) for the D1000 and the supplemental diagram # 21266 (lower left) for the D1001 (common battery set with "push to talk" lever).
Remove the metal link #2 and replace it with the 2 wires (black and white) from the push to talk switch.
Poplar1,
Thanks for the link! I had found Kellogg docs from '47 and '49 but had not come across that 1948 publication that covers what I was looking for.
Should I assume that the Press to Talk doorbell-looking button is wired the same as the Press to Talk lever?
Thanks,
Nick
I don't think they are the same. Isn't the round button momentary? The push to talk or dial closes 2 contacts for the rest of the call.
I've seen the round buttons only on Selectophones, though perhaps there were other uses. The Kellogg 1000 (redbar) and the AE 34 are about the only 2 models that we never refurbished when I worked at Hallmark House. Boss didn't like the Kelloggs so I've never worked on them much.
Poplar1,
I believe you are correct about the door-bell-type button being momentary.
On page 6 of the document from 1947 at: http://www.telephonecollectors.info/strombergcarlson/selectophone/PDF/KG_1947_BLTN_815_MN_SELECTOPHONE.pdf , in a section entitled, "A Brief Description of Select-O-Phone, The Private Automatic Telephone System", I found the following statement which is the first statement I have been able to find that seems to talk about the door-bell-type button that appears on many of the Redbars.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
"7. Party Line Service
...To ring a station on your own party line, merely press the ringing button; the dial need not be operated. Conversations between stations on a party line are as private as between stations on single station lines."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
So I guess that it just rings the bells of the phones in the system that are on the same party line circuit that it is on. (I am making a guess here as I am really not very familiar with how telephone systems are put together.)
I assume that if I knew where to look for it (and I was better at spotting things on a schematic), it must show up on the Select-O-Phone schematics.
just my 2 cents worth.
I believe you need to also crank the phone "if it has one" to signal other parties???
I do not know that there is any circuitry inside a redbar, that can generate a ring signal???
Yes, the button is momentary.
My understanding, is
1.crank phone, operator answers.
2. hold button and crank phone, rings party phones, not the op
but, i cud be wrong...it has happened. ;)