Princess 2702B, No touch tone sound

[princessphone]

I've acquired recently three 2702B Princesses (from different sources). The lights all function well. They all have a dial tone, ring and receive calls, however I can't call out on them and hear no "touch tone sounds" when the buttons are pushed. It would seem odd that all three dialers would be broken. I've checked all the wiring, and they appear to be correct. What could be the problem? Any help would be much appreciated. John DeJonge   

[poplar1]

Do you hear a click (rather than single or dual tone) when pressing a button? If so, this usually means the polarity of the line is reversed.

Polarity doesn't matter on rotary phones (702B) or on Touch-Tone sets that are equipped with polarity guards (2702BMG).

You could try reversing the red and green wires of the mounting cord. If the phone then dials out, you will know it is a polarity issue. If it still won't dial out, then you probably have a defective dial or defective network.

[princessphone]

Hello poplar1. Thanks again for your prompt and knowledgeable response. You assumed correctly that it was a polarity issue. All three phones now work fine after I did the switcheroo.
Perhaps you can explain why the polarity had to be reversed.
The subject phones all had the correct line wires connected (green to L1 and red to L2). Also the wiring in the plugs are correct.
All through the house the ring wires are red and the tip wires are green, right from the demarcation point. At the D-Marc, Bell's wires are white and blue. The white wire is  connected to my red wire (ring to ring) and the blue wire is connected to my green wire (tip to tip).
In my office I also have a 2702B princess which never had a polarity issue.
Also have a modern touch tone phone with no issues, but that may be that these newer phones adjust the polarity automatically.
It really bugs me that I don't understand why the polarity had to be reversed on these princesses as their wiring appear to be correct.
Thanks, John DeJonge       

[princessphone]

Hello poplar1. Just a little Post Script.
How can I test if a wire is a ring wire or a tip wire?
Thanks, John

[unbeldi]

Hello poplar1. Just a little Post Script.
How can I test if a wire is a ring wire or a tip wire?
Thanks, John

Tip is supposed to be the positive pole, and ring is negative.  So, just use a voltmeter, the red meter lead should show up to -48V when on the red (ring) wire.  If it's positive you got the tip wire.

The touch tone dial is powered from the direct (DC) line current. It needs power because the tone oscillator is driven by a transistor which must have the correct polarity to operate.

Newer touch-tone telephones contained a diode rectifier bridge circuit that always produces the correct polarity for the dial.

[poplar1]

If you don't have a volt-ohm meter, then there is another way to determine which lead is tip and which is ring:
A phone connected to ring and ground will draw dial tone, but a phone connected to tip and ground will not.

Although polarity of your line is no longer guaranteed by the phone company, in a correctly poled line, the white wire is tip and the blue wire is ring, which is the opposite of what you stated. I'm surprised you have only 3 phones that won't dial out, if your line is poled correctly, since you have the green station wires connected to blue rather than white at the protector. Is it that the other phones have rotary dials and/or polarity guards?

[princessphone]

Hello poplar1 and unbeldi,
You folks are truly amazing. I believe that you have explained a lot to me in these few posts.
I don't have a volt meter but used a multi-meter instead. I hooked the meter's red terminal to my red phone wire and the black terminal to the green wire and received a 42 (positive)volt reading. Thus my lines have been reversed for over 40 years and I did not know it because my modern phones have rectifiers or other stuff to correct the polarity, and my rotary phones including the rotary princesses didn't care about polarity.
I suspect that the cowboy (Bell installer) that wired my house knew nothing about tip and ring wires and nothing about primary and secondary colour codes, or did not care.
This explains why the three 2702B's not dialing out. But why was my office 2702B working all this time?
I opened this baby and on the dialer is stamped "R1269". The phone is stamped "5-68". Could it be that this phone was refurbished and had a rectifier or polarity guard installed?
Am I making too many assumptions? Please give me you opinion(s).
I'm thinking about switching the wires at the D-mark (aka lightning protector).
Thanks, John DeJonge
PS what does Hero Member mean?       

[unbeldi]

Hello poplar1 and unbeldi,
You folks are truly amazing. I believe that you have explained a lot to me in these few posts.
I don't have a volt meter but used a multi-meter instead. I hooked the meter's red terminal to my red phone wire and the black terminal to the green wire and received a 42 (positive)volt reading. Thus my lines have been reversed for over 40 years and I did not know it because my modern phones have rectifiers or other stuff to correct the polarity, and my rotary phones including the rotary princesses didn't care about polarity.
I suspect that the cowboy (Bell installer) that wired my house knew nothing about tip and ring wires and nothing about primary and secondary colour codes, or did not care.
This explains why the three 2702B's not dialing out. But why was my office 2702B working all this time?
I opened this baby and on the dialer is stamped "R1269". The phone is stamped "5-68". Could it be that this phone was refurbished and had a rectifier or polarity guard installed?

It's possible that it was installed later. They came in several versions no bigger than about 2"x 0.5". Attached is a picture of one found in a 2500 set inside a brown enclosure, and another bare board from somewhere else (perhaps a Princess, I don't recall).

Am I making too many assumptions? Please give me you opinion(s).
I'm thinking about switching the wires at the D-mark (aka lightning protector).
Thanks, John DeJonge

Switching the wires seems like the most logical activity for this afternoon.

PS what does Hero Member mean?       

It just means, we pick things up and put them down. -- the keyboard that is.  You do that often enough, the forum thinks highly of you. How bizarre.

[paul-f]

Although polarity of your line is no longer guaranteed by the phone company, ...

It's also worth noting that whatever polarity you have now is not guaranteed to stay constant.  It may be reversed at any time. 

Now you will recognize the symptoms if the polarity on your line changes in the future.  You can either be ready to reverse the wires again or install polarity guards.

[poplar1]

I'm not sure I follow. If you have your green wires connected to the blue outside, and red to white, and correctly wired phones won't dial out, this means that the cable pair from the phone company is not reversed; rather it is your house wiring that is reversed. If the white wire from the phone company is tip (+), and blue is ring (-), then their end is OK.

In the old days, the drop wire from the pole had one conductor with a ridge to make it easily identified as the ring side. This conductor was to be placed on the right hand terminal inside the protector, where the red leads from the inside wires also connected. Thus "Red-Ridge-Ring-Right"

[poplar1]

I agree--when the phone company reverses polarity on your line, if you have any polarity sensitive phones connected, it's usually much simpler to change the wiring at the protector rather than rewiring each phone.

Although polarity of your line is no longer guaranteed by the phone company, ...

It's also worth noting that whatever polarity you have now is not guaranteed to stay constant.  It may be reversed at any time. 

Now you will recognize the symptoms if the polarity on your line changes in the future.  You can either be ready to reverse the wires again or install polarity guards.

[princessphone]

Hi folks, it's me again.
Every time that I think that I got it figured out, more issues arise. For sure I thought that I had an acute case of CCB (Coo Coo Bananas).
I think that the polarity was OK at the D-Mark after all. Now coming into the house, the red wire is the ring wire - I think. With the meter's red terminal on the green wire and the black terminal on the red wire I get a 50 V DC reading. I hope that that is correct. I think that I'm confusing myself. Tomorrow I'll hook up a 2702B at the D-Mark and then I'll know. However this will not fix my problem.
Back track for some history.
Some time ago got interested in Princess Phones and decided to clean up the old phone wiring in the house and make all jack locations friendly for the Princesses, including a central power supply for the lights.
Also wanted a single data filter instead of having a filter at each phone, since Bell is my internet provider.
Also incorporated a ringer booster because of the numerous phones ringing.
Many times was up till the wee hours drawing and designing etc. and was greatly restricted by number of holes and damage my wife would allow.
With some modifications to the master plan, I got the job done.
However I now realize that I made grave errors and it has to do with polarity. I hard wired most or the the work with 22 AWG cable, however a lot of modular stuff was incorporated such as jacks, splitters, filters, booster, expansion board, junction boxes, and numerous short modular connecting cords.
And by using these short cords I often flipped (not knowingly) the polarity since these tiny plugs fit only one way. I think I may have to do some wiring modification inside some modular jacks so that the same polarity leaves as enters.
Right now some jack have the correct polarity and others have the reverse. Very annoying.
Thanks for all the help. The 2702B princesses are all OK. And for me it's back to the drawing board.
I specially want to thank a member who a while back recommended to use 22AWG solid copper wire cable and keep good records, documentations and drawings of what I was doing. I'm sure glad that I took his advice.
I'll keep you posted, John DeJonge