Anyone Experienced with the Dialor 1.2?

[MIPS]

Wow, nice writeup DSK.
Sorry I went silent but I'm in the middle of being sidetracked with expensive vehicle work. I should have that sorted by Thursday and I can go back to trying some of the earlier recommendations. I want to get this darn teletype out of my workshop so I can get back to other projects.

[dsk]

I could not find any manual, and it seems like the seller dont understand English at all, so I made this manual, it is at least better than nothing:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/285878051/Dialor-1-Operation-Manual

dsk

[MIPS]

Alright, I'm sitting at this bench for the next six hours or so so lets try and get this over with.

[But I'd still rather see you just try the dial directly. If you missed it in the other thread, just put the DP contacts in series with the modem.

I saw it in the other thread but I couldn't figure out what you meant by "in series with the modem". Things are wired up as such and the designs don't really let me change it:

This is what I suspected over in the other thread. If you're okay with battery power, you could try disconnecting R3 from the diode bridge, and connect it to the + terminal of a 9V battery, and put the - terminal to VSS. This would drain the battery pretty fast though, so you'd need to disconnect it when you're not using it (another relay with your hook relay would do it).

Tried that too. It was strange. The moment power was added the line muted and would unmute when you dialed but no tones would be emitted. I also have a 5V source very close by I can tap into but again, same weird issue. It doesn't like being externally powered with just R3 removed.

I would try disabling the darlington. There's a few ways to do this, but the easiest is probably to just remove R6.

Strangely when you disconnect R6 and THEN apply an external voltage things start working. I'm externally feeding it 5v now and indeed we have progress. I'm getting tones. The line is detecting them and things seem to be behaving.....but there's still a problem. Something must be distorting the tones enough that a number dialed on a regular phone completes fine but  becomes a "The number you have dialed cannot be completed as dialed" on the dialer. Removing R3 and trying the above again REALLY distorts the line and only the numbers 5, 8 and 9 are detected.
It will however work totally fine if I lower the voltage to 4.5v so....R3 should be a higher value...or should I add a resistor in series with the power source to pull the voltage down?

-DSK and a crazy amount of progress, plus a writeup-

I'm confused by the transformer at the bottom of your hand drawn schematic. What would R be and what is T?

Also, thanks for the little instruction book. I had no idea how the heck it generated # and * until you figured that out. The photos in the document are a little artifact-y though that might just be how they scaled.

[dsk]

-DSK and a crazy amount of progress, plus a writeup-

I'm confused by the transformer at the bottom of your hand drawn schematic. What would R be and what is T?

Also, thanks for the little instruction book. I had no idea how the heck it generated # and * until you figured that out. The photos in the document are a little artifact-y though that might just be how they scaled.

The transformer with R (receiver) and T (transmitter or microphone) is an example on a telephone voice circuit.

This should be your Modem data signal circuit. The hookswitch is just on of of the connection to the system, and the dial has the no and nc contacts, where the NO closes during dialing each digit (opens between each digit), and the NC contact is the pulsing contact.

If your modem is a plain oldfashioned pulse sending modem, (just 2 wires to the phone jack) this circuit will be pretty complicated to make. 
I would in that case went for another solution, some kind of a pulse to tone converter as Mitel Smart1 or other available things.

You may wait for the right offer at eBay. 

dsk

[MIPS]

With some experimentation and observations I think I got it anyways. The power source in the device I want to finally install this into not exactly 5V but 4.8v. If I just add a 100 ohm resistor in series to the adapter with the one number I can test at 6AM it's reliably dialing out fine now. I'll keep poking at it once people start waking up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnGbBbd-RLw

Edited: Yeah, that did it. Thanks guys.

[luns]

Alright, I'm sitting at this bench for the next six hours or so so lets try and get this over with.

[But I'd still rather see you just try the dial directly. If you missed it in the other thread, just put the DP contacts in series with the modem.

I saw it in the other thread but I couldn't figure out what you meant by "in series with the modem". Things are wired up as such and the designs don't really let me change it:

If the wiring between the line in, modem, and dialer is already connected in parallel, then the intended usage pattern for the dial panel must be different from what you're shooting for. The panel would have to have some hookswitch of its own, for you to pick up the line, and rotary dial out. Only after that would you instruct the modem to go on-line, and after that you would hang up the panel. A touch-tone dial panel could be used to dial with the modem already on-line though.

[luns]

This is what I suspected over in the other thread. If you're okay with battery power, you could try disconnecting R3 from the diode bridge, and connect it to the + terminal of a 9V battery, and put the - terminal to VSS. This would drain the battery pretty fast though, so you'd need to disconnect it when you're not using it (another relay with your hook relay would do it).

Tried that too. It was strange. The moment power was added the line muted and would unmute when you dialed but no tones would be emitted. I also have a 5V source very close by I can tap into but again, same weird issue. It doesn't like being externally powered with just R3 removed.

There may be isolation issues if you use the available 5V instead of the battery I'd suggested. You're likely introducing a foreign voltage to your line by tapping your available 5V; its ground is different from what the phone line considers ground, and when you connect these domains together, it can make the phone company unhappy, and also puts your equipment at risk to surges that wouldn't normally matter.

If you're providing power externally rather than taking it from the phone line, then the phone line connection only needs to transmit the DTMF signal, and you could do that through a 1:1 transformer which would give the isolation needed by FCC part 68/IC CS-03.

I would try disabling the darlington. There's a few ways to do this, but the easiest is probably to just remove R6.

Strangely when you disconnect R6 and THEN apply an external voltage things start working. I'm externally feeding it 5v now and indeed we have progress. I'm getting tones. The line is detecting them and things seem to be behaving.....but there's still a problem. Something must be distorting the tones enough that a number dialed on a regular phone completes fine but  becomes a "The number you have dialed cannot be completed as dialed" on the dialer. Removing R3 and trying the above again REALLY distorts the line and only the numbers 5, 8 and 9 are detected.
It will however work totally fine if I lower the voltage to 4.5v so....R3 should be a higher value...or should I add a resistor in series with the power source to pull the voltage down?

A larger R3 would be alright. The distortion comes about when the signal going through Q1 is too large for the DC voltage available at the phone line. The amplitude of this signal is proportional to VDD, which would normally be derived from the phone line itself, so the signal scales itself to the line voltage, but since you're introducing your own VDD, things go bad when that's too big. An alternative would be to use a larger R2 to reduce the gain through Q1.

[dsk]

You may find more about the "dialor" here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=22525.0

dsk

[MIPS]

It's still well worth the read to see that others have been tinkering with them.
In the years since I made this thread I've installed four others on different sets and have been quite satisfied with the results.

[8K-056]

Hi, I'm from China.

Dialor 1.2 can only be used in ZZ-9 telephone made in China, which needs to be installed on dial. Of course, if you know the dial circuit, you should be able to fly-wire installation. However, the simplest solution is to use Dailor 2.0, which does not require in-machine wiring and directly replaces the wiring box.

The ZZ-9 telephone has been manufactured and installed in large quantities in history.

[8K-056]

Here's the Dailor 1.2 manual, but it's in Chinese. You can use software to translate into English.

I bought a Dailor 2.0. This is the seller's online store link.

Dailor 1.2:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-8705486743.15.8150bd89sNi2RP&id=17156458075

Dailor 2.0:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-8705486743.13.8150bd89sNi2RP&id=526156082443
and
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-8705486743.19.8150bd89sNi2RP&id=526156806881

These links are from Taobao, a popular shopping website in China.

Relevant discussion of Chinese radio fans.
http://www.crystalradio.cn/thread-459602-2-1.html