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Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring --> Problem Solved, it rings

Started by shortrackskater, November 25, 2017, 07:27:32 PM

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shortrackskater

 I've tried exactly what you said and I don't get a ring. Still don't know really where to connect to ground so I connected it to the frame that holds the bell.
Mark J.

TelePlay

I think they mean a wire connecting the ringer to a half inch solid copper rod about ten feet long driven nine feet into the earth and electrically connected to the dirt with several gallons of concentrated salt water poured down alongside the copper rod. Ground ground. Or a reasonable facsimile.

shortrackskater

That's a good ground.  :D

Well I have no clue here... I think this will be a ringerless phone for now.
Here's a shot of the base of the ringer showing what might be a reed. I've compared this ringer to one in a 302 and that's the only difference I can see visually.
Mark J.

TelePlay

Quote from: shortrackskater on November 28, 2017, 10:59:21 PM
Here's a shot of the base of the ringer showing what might be a reed. I've compared this ringer to one in a 302 and that's the only difference I can see visually.

Yes, good photo of the reed, a thin, flat piece of metal sandwiched between the two metal pieces holding it at the bottom and two metal pieces holding it to the clapper wire, It's the part in the white box (second image below) that is the working part of the reed, the part that is tuned based on its type of metal, width and thickness) along with the clapper and the coils themselves which allow the bottom plate across both coils to move when a specific ringing frequency voltage is sent into the phone and the result is ringing the bell.

The other tuned part, the clapper shown in the first image example, would look something like your phone's clapper if you took the guard off covering the clapper between the gongs. It is a specific weight at a certain position on the rod that is used to tune the ringer along with the reed and the coils.

In contrast, the 3rd image is an example of a 302 ringer showing the axle instead of the reed which allows the plate across the bottom of both coils to pivot instead of flex when it is attracted to the coils (electromagnetically) at 20 Hz, a straight line ringer. The small, fixed clapper and spring make up the rest of the working mechanism and you can see the clapper is a small, fixed position ball needed just to hit the gongs, tuning is not needed or used. The bias spring is used to keep the clapper from tinkling the gongs when another phone on the line is dialed and is adjustable to increase or decrease the impact of the clapper on the gongs.

Doug Rose

Can you take a picture of how you have it wired up and is functioning. Right now there is a lot of guess work. It would help. With the test you did, did the clapper vibrate at all?

Was the phone working when you did this test?

Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug
Kidphone

TelePlay

Quote from: Doug Rose on November 29, 2017, 10:31:42 AM
Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug

Is this the "ultimate ground" connection being suggested to some terminal on the strip or some other point in the phone or is there a "relative ground" point in the phones wiring that would be on the terminal strip or some other point?

Telephones had black an yellow and then yellow which was the ground circuit to the CO designated ground (IIRC) but yellow is not used, an open circuit or no circuit today. So what's bridged from what to which ground point?

As you can see, I'm totally ignorant on the use of ground in a phone circuit with just red and green or are you saying red or green act as the ground and it doesn't matter which is used for the bridge?

shortrackskater

Quote from: Doug Rose on November 29, 2017, 10:31:42 AM
Can you take a picture of how you have it wired up and is functioning. Right now there is a lot of guess work. It would help. With the test you did, did the clapper vibrate at all?

Was the phone working when you did this test?

Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug

I have green and red (from the line) to positions 3 and 5 on the phone. I put a lead to a "case ground" on R and then G. I get dial tone both ways but the phone doesn't ring with either side connected to case ground. No vibration, nothing. I can post a picture but it will just show my alligator clips!
Mark J.

Doug Rose

Once again, case ground is not the ground for the ringing. Keep everything wired as is, pos 3 connect another wire to it. Call the phone and start at pos 1 touching the wire to it. If there is no ring or a disconnect put it on pos 2 etc.....Doug
Kidphone

shortrackskater

I tried all that... nothing. No rings. But while we're here... what the heck is this part? It's just below the terminal board. There's 1,2 on one side and a 3,4 on the other. It looks almost like a giant resistor.
Mark J.

TelePlay

Connections to the coil windings.

The coil has two windings, 4 ends like this (numbers may be wrong, it's either 1 to 3 and 1 to 4 or 2 to 3 and 2 to 4).

These diagrams are an example showing the coil, they are not necessarily the diagram for your phone.

shortrackskater

Thank you! That makes a little more sense now. Still that coil looks odd with all those little rods "stacked" in there.
I'm not sure where to go from here after trying what Doug suggested.
I'd love to be able to do some mod and make this phone ring on my land line.
Mark J.

RB

Replace the ringer with a straight line ringer.
may solve the issues? and be less of a headache.

shortrackskater

My phone is FINALLY mounted! Thanks to John/TelePlay, I now have a ringing phone. He took my old ringer and created a straight line ringer. I can't begin to explain it so I'll post what he wrote me and add pictures.

What John did:
I took the right side coil off of the ringer on the right and put it on the right side of the center ringer, the yellow circle shows the damaged area on the center ringer.
I took the two angle brackets off of the left ringer and put them on the center ringer.
I then put a muslin cover on each coil of the center ringer to make them match.
So, the gongs and mounting brackets from your ringer and the combination of parts from two fingers resulted in a working ringer for your phone. The right side ringer on the first picture I sent to you.
The above (now below) image are the before images, yours on the far left. Look at the bottom out the ringers. The frequency ringer looks totally different than the straight line ringers.
Frequency ringers flex the metal reed, straight line ringers pivot on an axle.


Again THANK YOU for the help. This phone actually works great. Now it's on to the next. I really need more walls in the room too.  :P
Mark J.