Northern Electric Catalogue no. 7

[NorthernElectric]

I have been looking at Northern Electric Catalogue no. 7.

archive.org dates this ca. 1945 but I think it's likely 1-1/2 to 2 decades earlier, based on the telephone products listed.  Does anyone know the actual publication date, or can anyone help to narrow down the likely date based on these products?  I could find no publication date in the catolog.  Interestingly, it states 'The dial is not included in the code number and must be ordered separately' but I found no dials in the catalog.

[NorthernElectric]

PS.  They also have General catalogue no. 4, which lists similar candlestick products but no D1.  archive.org dates this catalog ca. 192-? (their question mark, not mine).

[unbeldi]

Based on the offering of vacuum tubes in this Catalogue No. 7, I think it was issued between 1933 and 1936, 1938 at the latest, and definitively no earlier.

It is also interesting to note that the Slater Pole Dating Nails are available for the years "32 and up" (page 631).

From what I know, General Catalogue No. 2 has been dated to 1914, No. 3 to 1917, and No. 6 to 1928, so this is a possible history:

No. 2        1914
No. 3        1917
No. 4        192?
No. 5        192?
No. 6        1928
No. 7        1933-1936

As to the completeness of the general catalogs, it is likely that they do not contain the full complement of telephone equipment, similar to the general supply catalogs of Western Electric.  That's probably why you couldn't find the dial.  Just like Western Electric, Northern also issued a series of catalogs listing only telephonic supplies and apparatus, designated by T-number:

T3      1927
T6      ca. 1935-1937
T7      1947
T8      1955
T9      1965...

In addition to the catalogs, they issued catalog bulletins, short term updates.

It's always 'fun' to try to date these ... dates come without warranty.

[.....]

I have a copy of the Northern Electric T7 catalogue.

[DavePEI]

Further to Unbeldi's comments...

T9 is a funny one. As it was issued in a binder and updates issued through the years of its issue, it is seldom that you will find two identical. Updates came with the instruction to remove such and such page, and to replace it with the new page.

All the previous ones were printed in a book format, and I have most of the T versions, at least.

So, if you come across a T9, you most likely have one which will differ somewhat from others, as some catalog owners did make the changes, and some didn't, some removed the older pages,, and some didn't etc.

Don Woodbury had a number of brand new NIB T7s at one point. While I already had a T7, I bought one just to get an NIB one. They came in a cardboard NE mailing box from NE.

I have T3 (1927), T6 (2nd Edition - 1937), T7 (1947), T8 (1955) and T9 (1962 to 1972 - over 700 Pages.

Dave

[NorthernElectric]

Thanks guys.  I haven't seen any of the T catalogs.  Are there any scans online?

[DavePEI]

I don't know if he still does them, but Fred Coady did CDs of them:

Northern Electric Catalogues on Cd!

Available from Fred Coady, these affordable disks are now available with the following Northern Electric catalogue issues: T3 (1927), T6 (2nd Edition - 1937), T7 (1947), T8 (1955) and T9 (1962 to 1972 - over 700 Pages - T9 was a loose-leaf catalogue, which was updated as new pages were issued). These catalogues contain Northern Electric's entire range of products at the time of issue, including wiring diagrams for many early NE phones. Disks are priced at $15 USD per catalogue year. Contact Fred at: fred_lawco@yahoo.ca for details!

Dave

[Stubbypylon]

The Catalogue no. 4 would have to be very early 1920's.  The 20UN candlestick was only available for a short while and predates both the N50 and WE candlesticks.

[Stubbypylon]

Meant to say WE dial candlesticks

[unbeldi]

Well, that would put it into the 10s, the first WE dial candlestick came out in 1919/20.

These are indeed the kinds of cross-examination necessary to date some of these catalogs.  Where did you get your information about the 20UN, if not from catalogs?

[Stubbypylon]

I have one and got my information from discussions on the ATCA listserv and other collectors.  You'll notice the base style is more similar to AE's Stepbase candlestick and the dials were the earliest of the "N" type dial that is almost the same as a Mercedes dial.

[unbeldi]

Very nice.
Did NECo actually make them, or did AE make them for NECo?
NECo was already making the Bell-style 20AL, so why would they invest into retooling for a device that was only to be issued for a short period of time?  Had they made it themselves they would probably given it a designation more in line with the Bell System practice. All 20-type instruments were manual.
I rather suspect that they bought these from AE, and used Bell System transmitters and receivers. They were only looking to bridge a certain amount of time until the 50AL was ready or available in sufficient quantities. Hence the short period of time of issue that you are quoting.

This would indeed place the No. 4 General Catalogue to the period right after the war, 1919-21.

There should be more supporting evidence in the secondary literature.

I have one and got my information from discussions on the ATCA listserv and other collectors.  You'll notice the base style is more similar to AE's Stepbase candlestick and the dials were the earliest of the "N" type dial that is almost the same as a Mercedes dial.

[Stubbypylon]

I'm pretty sure Northern made these candlesticks.  I thought the N dials were made under license of AE.  While the base is similar to an AE Stepbase, it is different.  Its like a cross between the AE Stepbase and the Bell Canada #4 candlestick base with a more convex top than the AE concave top.  The base is also marked Northern Electric Company Ltd on the base surrounding the shaft.  The perch is marked 20-UN.  Maybe Northern was "told" to stop making products that looked like AE's?