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WE 434a subset

Started by mark9564, January 03, 2015, 11:42:36 PM

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mark9564

Hi, I'm new to all this and just picked up a 434a subset for D1 phone . Can't find any info on the subset, how old it is or when they were made and used . Thanks for any help.

unbeldi

#1
Welcome!

The 434A subsets were first installed starting in 1931 with the introduction of anti-sidetone circuits in subscriber telephones. It is electrically identical to the more common 634A, but the 434A has the gongs of the ringer on the outside of the housing, rather than inside as in the 634A.

Initially the 434A set used a 146B induction coil, but these were later upgraded to a 101A closed-core induction coil as you have in your set. It appears yours was upgraded in late 1947 [or 1937, as indicated by the date stamp (IV-47 [37) on the coil cover.  [PS: or is it 1937?  On second look, I can't decipher the decade from the picture.]

Your set looks very nice and clean. Congrats!



mark9564

It is a 37, and thank you for the info. :)

poplar1

This subset was originally a 334A .There were never any new 434As, only conversions from 334As. The 334A was superseded in the late teens by the 534A  with enclosed gongs, so your subset is older than 1920, except for the upgraded parts.

The Western Electric repair shop  changed out the two-winding induction coils to 146B or 101A coils, and recoded the subsets 434A. (Adding 100 to the original code number indicated anti-sidetone.) They could then be used with anti-sidetone sets such as the 151AL desk stand, and the 202 and 211 hand telephone sets, with 4 conductors between the subset and the telephone.

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

mark9564

Great info, so I guess the $10 I paid for it was worth it.

WesternElectricBen

Quote from: mark9564 on January 04, 2015, 12:45:38 PM
Great info, so I guess the $10 I paid for it was worth it.
I'd say so, I paid $60 for a good 684 subset,

Ben

unbeldi

#6
I still suspect this set had a 146B induction coil before it received its 101A. But it's also possible that the set was first refurbished as a sidetone set with a 46B coil.

Had it been upgraded directly from a 334A to the as-found 434A, it probably would still have the original wood terminal board that was bigger and had more places for the additional terminals that were moved from a No. 20 or 46 induction coil to the 46B or 146B.  It has always struck me that WECo reused the old terminal blocks as long as possible even when changing to a 101A coil.
Some time after the introduction of the 101A coil, WECo also made wood terminal strips that did not have markings for the L2Y terminals anymore, because those are now on the induction coil as well, and they might have used those instead of this 46-type bar.

Another aspect to look for on this set is the type and age of the condensers. The upgrade to anti-sidetone required the addition of a second condenser.  The type designations of your condenser(s) might tell the upgrade history of the set.  There may be just one dual-condenser can, or two condensers stacked upon each other, which is not visible from the pictures.

The 434A, as well as the 634A subscriber sets were not considered to be "standard" sets by WECo, and cannot be found in the catalogs, for instance, IIRC. Starting in 1931, the standard anti-sidetone subscriber set was the 684A, which was a little more compact, not as high above the base.  The 434A, and 634A, were considered to be "equivalent" sets, being retrofitted.  However, some other suffix versions, such as 634-BB, were standard, because no similar 684-type was ever produced, and those can indeed be found in catalogs.

unbeldi

#7
Quote from: poplar1 on January 05, 2015, 08:04:59 PM
I thought that the change from 46- to 46B was necessary for the 584A subset. I'll try to find out more about the 46B dates, but it would surprise me to find a 46B as original equipment in a pre-1920 subscriber set.

The No 46 induction coil was introduced in 1919, the 46B in the 20s (late?), IIRC.

I didn't say it was original equipment.

unbeldi

Quote from: unbeldi on January 05, 2015, 08:08:10 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on January 05, 2015, 08:04:59 PM
I thought that the change from 46- to 46B was necessary for the 584A subset. I'll try to find out more about the 46B dates, but it would surprise me to find a 46B as original equipment in a pre-1920 subscriber set.

The No 46 induction coil was introduced in 1919, the 46B in the 20s (late?), IIRC.

Ok, I checked.... I have a dated 3-29 46B in a 534 subscriber set. I believe the 584 subscriber was introduced in1930.

poplar1

I deleted the post because I remembered that the 584A has a 46C induction coil, rather than a 46B.

Since early 534As (and 533A wall sets) had 20-type induction coils, it seems unlikely that 334As would have been equipped with either 46 or 46B induction coils.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

#10
Quote from: poplar1 on January 05, 2015, 08:35:15 PM
I deleted the post because I remembered that the 584A has a 46C induction coil, rather than a 46B.

Since early 534As (and 533A wall sets) had 20-type induction coils, it seems unlikely that 334As would have been equipped with either 46 or 46B induction coils.
Definitely not with 46B, the 1923 catalog still shows 46 for the 534A.
The 334 was likely not in the No.4 catalog (1922) anymore, the first catalog after the war. The BTL "Early Years" cites the introduction of the No. 46 coil to 1918. It was more efficient and cheaper to produce.
But all this is really only tangentially relevant to the history of this 434A. It has a terminal board that corresponds to a 146B (or 46B as a sidetone phone) induction coil.  The question is whether WECo was still using the (1)46-type terminal board in 1937 for new conversions with a 101A coil, or whether they already had the newer one without the L2Y terminal position.

Why doesn't it have the original terminal block anymore, when many 101A conversions I have seen still had that wide wood block?


poplar1

Questions for mark9564:

Is "434A" stamped on the inside cover or on the back?
Can you see the part number(s) on the capacitors (condensers)?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

Interesting phone.  Reminds me of the 495 BP
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

mark9564

434A is stamped on the back

wds

I just purchased a 434-A, and noticed it had an earlier date than the 1931 date mentioned earlier in the thread.  Mine is IV 30.    It seems to still have the original capacitor, but has a 2nd one under the Coil.  It appears to have gotten a new coil in 1940.
Dave