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What is this thing? -> North Electric 541

Started by cloyd, June 04, 2015, 08:49:25 PM

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cloyd

I bought this phone on ebay.  What a rip off!  I was going to use the dial in my ivory 302.  Is there anything in this phone that can be salvaged?  What kind of ringer is that?
Thanks for helping make lemonade.

Tina Loyd
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

WEBellSystemChristian

What year is your ivory 302? If it's early fifties, that dial would have been used.

Other than that, the housing, dial, hookswitch, baseplate, feet, and assumably the cords and handset.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

NorthernElectric

#2
The ringer looks like the one used in the Northern Electric Contempra, a Canadian design and not made by WE but marketed in the US by NE I believe.  I think the network must be from something else; I don't recognize that.  If the ringer and network are in working order, you could save it to use for a test and/or temporary subset for a D1 or whatever.  You can get a repro subset cover for the 302 base if you wanted to make it more permanent.  You could repopulate the base with correct parts later when you acquire spares.  Is this anything at all like lemonade for you?   ;)
Cliff

andre_janew

The network may simply be one of those aftermarket electronic networks.  I'd be curious to find out if it works the way it is right now.

G-Man

#4
A standard network that replaced the 425B and later networks. It was used by ITT/Cortelco, Stromberg Carlson, Premier and other major telephone manufacturers. I have pasted the circuit label showing a 2500 set using one of these networks.

The ringer appears to be part of a standard E1 ringer used for Princess and other sets needing an external ringer, but may be a similar model instead.

G-Man

#5
Quote from: G-Man on June 04, 2015, 10:02:34 PM
A standard network that replaced the 425B and later networks. It was used by ITT/Cortelco, Stromberg Carlson, Premier and other major telephone manufacturers. I have pasted the circuit label showing a 2500 set using one of these networks.

The ringer appears to be part of a standard E1 ringer used for Princess and other sets needing an external ringer, but may be a similar model instead.
Actually the ringer is closer to a D-type ringer instead of the E1; both of which were designed by Western Electric and copied by others.

G-Man

cloyd, please take a look at the number that I have circled in your photo and tell us what it is.
Thanks!

cloyd

Quote from: NorthernElectric on June 04, 2015, 09:28:20 PM
The ringer looks like the one used in the Northern Electric Contempra, a Canadian design and not made by WE but marketed in the US by NE I believe.  I think the network must be from something else; I don't recognize that.  If the ringer and network are in working order, you could save it to use for a test and/or temporary subset for a D1 or whatever.  You can get a repro subset cover for the 302 base if you wanted to make it more permanent.  You could repopulate the base with correct parts later when you acquire spares.  Is this anything at all like lemonade for you?   ;)

The number on the ringer is D1B.  I have a NE1582 with a frequency ringer.  Would this ringer be a suitable replacement?

Thank you for your time!
Tina Loyd
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

cloyd

GMan, you said,
Quote from: andre_janew on June 04, 2015, 09:33:37 PM
The network may simply be one of those aftermarket electronic networks.  I'd be curious to find out if it works the way it is right now.

The phone gets a dial tone, rings, dials out, and receives calls as it is currently wired.

Tina Loyd

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

cloyd

Thank you to everyone.  What a valuable resource you are. 

Christian, you wrote,
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on June 04, 2015, 09:20:22 PM
What year is your ivory 302? If it's early fifties, that dial would have been used.

My ivory 302 is 1950 and the NE dial says it is a 6L, 10-65.  Is this an appropriate dial?  A 1950 dial would be better, I know.  If someone wants to trade, I would love that.

Tina Loyd
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

WEBellSystemChristian

#10
The dial is appropriate, although it's definitely not the same year. If you paint the casing white and add an open-center fingerwheel, it would be ascetically identical.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Dan/Panther

#11
Tina;
Those parts inside appear to be rather modern network, and ringer, like you might find in a modular phone in the 70's or 80's.
Don't consider the phone beyond repair. Take your time, there are sprays that you can use to remove the rust, without damage to the part itself. Once you get it cleaned, blow it out good with compressed air. Then test to see if the part works. Very few parts I've worked with are actually beyond use. We have all had units we felt were destined for the trash, but that is what makes this so much fun, The challenge to see if we can save these, one part at a time.
Plus, keep a box to put parts into that you think are beyond salvage, one day you will need it, and remember that you threw one away. NEVER throw the stuff away. Last time I checked, they don't make these parts any more.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

G-Man

#12
Quote from: cloyd on June 05, 2015, 10:27:58 AM
GMan, you said,
Quote from: andre_janew on June 04, 2015, 09:33:37 PM
The network may simply be one of those aftermarket electronic networks.  I'd be curious to find out if it works the way it is right now.

The phone gets a dial tone, rings, dials out, and receives calls as it is currently wired.

Tina Loyd


Hi Tina

The quote regarding the network was actually made by andre_janew who thought it was an "aftermarket electronic network ".

I identified the network as a standard replacement, manufactured by most of the major telephone manufacturers, for the earlier networks such as the 425B, 4228, 4293, etc. In fact, it is still being manufactured to this day and used by Premier and Cortelco. They are actually great little networks for use as mini-networks for sets without their own.

I also i.d. the ringer as a standard Western Electric designed D-type ringer that is intended to be used on a standard telephone lines.
Offhand I do not recall what a NE1582 instrument is and I am unable to find it so far in their catalogs, so I'm unable to state whether it would be appropriate to use it for a true restoration, but if it will physically fit inside of it, it will work.

A 6L dial is not appropriate for use with a 302 since it is intended for the later 600-type Call Directors and Card Dialers.




paul-f

Quote from: G-Man on June 05, 2015, 02:16:01 PM

Offhand I do not recall what a NE1582 instrument is and I am unable to find it so far in their catalogs, so...


Steve,  Are you looking in a North Electric (NE) catalog or the other NE?

The dial shown above identifies the set as North.

I'm interested to see the model number marking, as the North desk sets I've seen have lower model numbers.

   http://www.paul-f.com/North555.htm
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

G-Man

Quote from: paul-f on June 05, 2015, 06:29:36 PM
Quote from: G-Man on June 05, 2015, 02:16:01 PM

Offhand I do not recall what a NE1582 instrument is and I am unable to find it so far in their catalogs, so...


Steve,  Are you looking in a North Electric (NE) catalog or the other NE?

The dial shown above identifies the set as North.

I'm interested to see the model number marking, as the North desk sets I've seen have lower model numbers.

   http://www.paul-f.com/North555.htm

Paul, the photo did not load up when I first viewed Tina's reply and since she referred to  the 6-type dial in the following manner, "My ivory 302 is 1950 and the NE dial says it is a 6L, 10-65" I assumed by her usage of NE in the above instead of the customary NECo, she meant the telephone set with the frequency ringer was a Northern Electric instrument instead of a NORTH ELECTRIC set.

Just like the reply from another member referred to a "D1" without differentiating between the handset mounting or the ringer with the same designation. While most of us know what he meant a D1 handset mounting, newcomers can be easily confused when the correct abbreviations and nomenclature are not being use properly. 

In any event, since it is a North Electric (N.E.) instead of a Northern Electric (NECo) telephone, in regards to authenticity, it would not be an appropriate ringer. However, if she would like to use D1 ringer until she can find an straight-line "C"-type ringer, and if it physically fits, then it will work ok.