Subset Questions / WE 51-AL phone

[winkydink]

Straight on isn't all that important, but if you can get a really sharp image, that would be brilliant.

I will try to post the new picture tonight.


On another note:  I think Santa has found me a ringer for my 534A subset.  It is out of a parted out 533A phone.  The gentleman who sold me the subset indicated to me that the ringer from this 533A would be a replacement for the original ringer.

Here it is on ebay

> 533A Ringer< ( dead link 03-14-21 )

Is this a compatible replacement?  (I sure hope so !)

How would I go about cleaning the windings for the ringer?  Or is it better that I leave them alone in their dirty state?

[bingster]

Not bad, winkydink.  It looks like the right one to me.  As for cleaning, I don't suppose a damp cloth would hurt the coil covering.  Just give it a light wipedown, and all should be well. 

[winkydink]

Here is a new picture of the wiring diagram.  I took it a full resolution and as in focus as I could get it.

I hope this one is an improvement.

Thanks!

[bingster]

Perfect, winkydink.  Thanks!

[winkydink]

Here is a new picture of the wiring diagram.  I took it a full resolution and as in focus as I could get it.

I hope this one is an improvement.

Thanks!

I got rid of the 2nd picture since it was out of focus.  If I get a chance, I will try to post a close-up of the upper 1/2 of the diagram.

This will have to wait until after the 25th however.

Merry Christmas all.

[winkydink]

Well I am back from my travels to family and friends.  I finally had some time to try and hook up my candlestick to my 534 subset.  Naturally I do have some more questions.

Bottom line is when I hook the phone and subset up the way I think it should go, I get a very faint (distant sounding) dial tone.  When I hook it up directly (bypassing the subset) I get a very strong dial tone.

Now the details...

• I connected the lose wire to the L2 post as instructed in a previous post.
• I connected the mounting cord wire (wire from subset to the wall) as followed:  Red to Y-L2, Green to L1
• Line from phone to subset:  Green to GN post
• Line from phone to subset:  Yellow to L2/Y post
• Line from phone to subset:  Red to R/R post on condenser

When I did the above and picked up the receiver I had NO DIAL TONE.  I then moved the Phone to subset Red wire to the "R" posts (lower Left) located on the induction coil.  When I did this I had a faint (distant) dial tone.  I was able to dial my own number with the set and get a busy signal with this set up.
I also tried to call my phone via a cell phone, but the subset did not ring.  Additionally, I connected the wall line yellow to ground to see if this would make a difference, but it did not.

I then decided to do some other experimentation.  I hooked the phone directly to the wires coming from the wall.  Red to Red, Green to Green, Yellow to Yellow.  When I did this I had a STRONG dial tone.  I was not able to dial out.

My conclusion is that the phone is OK.  The subset is probably OK, but it may be wired improperly

Also why are there two Red Posts on the subset (one on top of the condenser and one on top of the induction coil).  Which should be used?

• Is there anything special about these connectors?
• What I mean is are they just there to allow wires to be hooked up and the labeling is just a convienence/convention?
• Are these posts/connectors hooked up to anything  "internally"  (i.e. Are there hidden wires that connect any of these post to any of the components in the subset) ?

     

Any help unravelling the mystery would be appreciated.

Any help in determining from the phone and the wiring diagram that the subset is wired correctly would also be appreciated.

Thanks.

[bingster]

This one's going to be tricky, since the subset is apparently a revision from the parts shown on the diagram.  A few random thoughts before I study what you've got here:

When I hook it up directly (bypassing the subset) I get a very strong dial tone.

However you wind up wiring it, this really loud dial tone is what you want to avoid.  It's the overcurrent situation in the receiver that we're always talking about. 

Also why are there two Red Posts on the subset (one on top of the condenser and one on top of the induction coil).  Which should be used?

The one on the induction coil.

Are these posts/connectors hooked up to anything  "internally"  (i.e. Are there hidden wires that connect any of these post to any of the components in the subset)? ... What I mean is are they just there to allow wires to be hooked up and the labeling is just a convienence/convention?

The terminals on the terminal strip over the condenser aren't connected to anything.  Like you thought, they're there to allow wires to be connected to each other, and nothing more.   Only the four terminals on the induction coil are actually wired to anything. 



One test you might try is to wire the setup as you did when you got the faint dial tone.  Then remove the two wires from the receiver element.  Take a receiver element from a later phone, like a 302 or 500 if you have one, and hold the lugs from the receiver cords against the contacts on the back of the newer receiver element.  If you can put the element against your ear while holding the wires to the contacts, what does the dial tone sound like?

Also a question:  How many wires do you have coming out of the condenser?  There should be two, but in the photo it looks like there may be three there.  Where do each of those originate?

[winkydink]

Also a question:  How many wires do you have coming out of the condenser?  There should be two, but in the photo it looks like there may be three there.  Where do each of those originate?

Please see the photos below. 

I have 4 wires coming out of the condenser not 2  .  They are wired as follows

• Upper Left goes to the Y2 post on condenser
• Upper Right goes to the R/R post on the condenser
• Lower Right goes to the B post on the condenser
• Lower Left goes to the C post on the coil

Is this condenser an anti-side tone condenser instead of an side tone condenser ?

The second picture shows a closeup of the condenser and coil with the wiring from a top view.


One other option I have, just came in the mail today (see the third picture).  This shows the condenser/coil/bell assembly from a 533A phone.  The seller parted this out and I was hoping to use the bell assembly in my 534A case and replace the smaller bell.

The induction coil is the same as I have in my present 534A.  The condenser has 2 wires coming out of the condenser not 4 (see the 4th picture).

Let me know if the 533A parts should just be swapped in the case and those be used.

Thanks !

[winkydink]

One other option I have, just came in the mail today (see the third picture).  This shows the condenser/coil/bell assembly from a 533A phone.  The seller parted this out and I was hoping to use the bell assembly in my 534A case and replace the smaller bell.

The induction coil is the same as I have in my present 534A.  The condenser has 2 wires coming out of the condenser not 4 (see the 4th picture).

Let me know if the 533A parts should just be swapped in the case and those be used.

Well I tried connecting the wall/subset wires and phone/subset wires to the proper post on the 533A parts and what do you know, it works !

I get a solid strong clear dial tone, I can dail out and the ringer rings.  Additionally I also have sidetone/feedback.

I have taken all the parts out of the 534A and replaced them with the 533A parts.  The subset now works and the phone works.  Now I just need some proper wires so that I can replace the jury rig wires I have.  I have an order into HOF.

Thanks for all the help.

[bingster]

Excellent, winkydink!  If the sidetone is too much for you, subset diagrams do mention that you can reverse the mounting cord's red and yellow leads inside the subset to gain some sidetone reduction.  I'm not sure how much it's reduced, but it's worth trying.

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/library/weco/534a.pdf

[winkydink]

I have 4 wires coming out of the condenser not 2  .  They are wired as follows

• Upper Left goes to the Y2 post on condenser
• Upper Right goes to the R/R post on the condenser
• Lower Right goes to the B post on the condenser
• Lower Left goes to the C post on the coil

Is this condenser an anti-side tone condenser instead of an side tone condenser ?

The second picture shows a closeup of the condenser and coil with the wiring from a top view.

Can anyone identify what condenser I had on the 534A with the 4 wires.  It is labeled "Western Electric Made in USA" on top and on the side it has "COND  21 BG".  I am just curious if somewhere down the road I can use it in another subset.

[bingster]

I don't know enough about the nitty gritty of subsets to know which condensers are used and why.  It could be that it was a revision of some sort, but usually when a subset is upgraded, they mark through the diagram inside the cover with black paint.  But according to the diagram you have, I think you've now got exactly what's supposed to be in there.

[Konrad]

• I am sure this was originally a side-tone model.  Where these type of phones ever upgraded to anti-sidetone?

They may have been upgraded by Western Electric.  Any sidetone model will be a three digit number starting with 1, for example, 120AL, 140AL, 151AL.  The switchhook contacts in a sidetone desk stand are insufficient to allow for true anti-sidetone, but the sidetone effect can be reduced by moving a wire in the subset.

This sounds confusing.  I thought adding the 1 meant it was converted to anti-sidetome.  For example a 51al sidetone becomes an 151al anti-sidetone when converted.  My 151AL sounds as good as any phone I own and is an anti-sidetone phone.

[bingster]

Exactly right!  That was a typo on my part.  I meant anti-sidetone and typed sidetone.