WE 49/500 distribution.

[Dan/Panther]

McHeath;
Maybe you're onto something there. It would go along ways to explaining why no one ever catches Big Foot !!!
D/P

[McHeath]

Okay, so I was reading in the following:

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/WesternElectric/500-Set-Design-1949.pdf

It's what appears to be a transcript of a seminar on the Western Electric model 500, introducing it to the managers of the company by some of the designers.  It's pretty good stuff, I learned an awful lot about the 500 from it, such as do you know the 3 reasons WE had for putting a grommet on the handset cord where it enters the handset? 

I even learned why there are little dots inside the fingerwheel holes. 

And what notes the gongs strike.

And why they went to four wires in the handset cord instead of three like the 302 series had.

And what technology they incorporated in the network that they gleaned from captured German technology after winning WW2.

And what they thought of the Bell System field tech guys up at Bell Labs in 1949.

Why there is nylon in the dial, and if it's the same nylon as used on women's hose and underthings of the time period. 

Anyway, there were question and answer times as well, and one question was when production would start for subscribers.  It was up in the air, they had to move equipment to the new plant in Indianapolis, and there was no firm date yet.  The seminar was held in May of 49' and they are quite clear that up to that time only pre-production 500s had been made, and not very many, and they had all been recalled.  None were still in the hands of customers by May of 49', so if there is a 48', or even 47' which they say were the very earliest of prototypes, then none were in the general public hands at that date. 

The amount of care that went into the design is impressive.  They tested everything, nothing was left to chance, a process that took years and the stated goal was to make a phone that would simply never malfunction, remain looking reasonably current over time, and have the best possible sound and call characteristics possible. 

Time and again they spoke about why they made such and such a design choice to give the phone a longer lifespan and be less trouble prone.  (This is the main reason they went to four wires in the handset cord, to slow wire degradation and breakage) 

Now I really don't think these phones will ever die off, they will simply out live us and their technological backbone, the landline system, and are probably one of the highpoints of 20th century industrial design. 

[contraste]

Thanks for the link McHeath, very informative reading.

[McHeath]

Still beating this dead horse.  I came across this on Paul Fs web site where he was discussing the model 500s development:

1949 -- WE 500 as announced

June 2, 1950, "The first supply of new 500-type telephone sets was announced.  About 180,000 were expected to come off production lines during the balance of the year." (Events in Telecommunications History, AT&T)

This is on this page:

http://www.paul-f.com/weproto.html

This lines up with the Q and A session I read and commented on earlier.  It seems that the 500 was only really available for subscribers starting in mid 50. 

[Dan]

Would it be safe to say based on this they us "common people" could only get 1950 phones and if the 49ers are out there , it is a mistake?

[HobieSport]

Thanks for the research, McHeath.  I guess while there may or may not be 49ers out there, it seems like a worthwhile goal would be to find a matching dates June 2 1950.

[McHeath]

I also found this ad, which is way too little but this was the only size I could find.  It seems to indicate that 1950 is when the model 500 is being released to the public at large.  Notice that the dial bezel has the word operator in a straight line, the leather foot on the bottom looks like the ones on a 302, and there is an odd hump around the ringer volume knob on the bottom.

[bingster]

Here's the super-duper big version:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/PopularScience/6-1949/ringer_volume.jpg

[McHeath]

Thanks for finding that.  It states as well that while some trial units will be made in 1949, regular production will only begin in "late 1950". 

So, about to draw a conclusion here, based on the primary source evidence I've been finding I would conclude that model 500s were not made for regular subscribers in 49', and that the earliest normal production unit we stand a chance of finding is mid and later 1950.  (A 1950 model 500 would be a rare bird itself)  I would also conclude that somewhere out there are some 49' model 500s, trial units etc, sorta like that 1948 model 302 touch tone prototype we saw bring almost 16k on e-bay a while back. 

[Tonyrotary]

I wonder if some person actually has a 49' and doesn't even know it. You know maybe one test model wasn't accounted for? And know it is packed away in some basement or attic somewhere. Or maybe the ONE 49' that somehow made it is now buried in some landfill as who wanted an old rotary phone anymore?

[BDM]

A few have made the claim in the clubs. But my challenge to produce a verifiable pic has not been met. Go figure!

[rp2813]

The mid-to-late 1950 period as the first at-large distribution of the 500 is kind of what I've been feeling all along.  I think a June 1950 set would be a real score.  Am I remembering correctly that someone here has a 500 with that dating?  Maybe it's 1951.  I doubt lightning will strike twice for me and I'm happy to settle for my 10/50 with the regular 500 style configuration for "Operator."  Maybe that's the configuration that they went with starting in June 1950 for mass production.

BUT--what is up with the clear plungers on the Popular Mechanics phone? 

Ralph

[HobieSport]

Ralph as far as I know your 10/50 is the oldest 500 among the forum thus far.  Dennis has a 12/50.  I'm just re-reading our poll from last year at

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=327.15

BTW I'm not sure why that poll "expired", because I was hoping we could all keep adding to it over time.  If polls have a time limit maybe it would be nice to start a new one.

[McHeath]

BUT--what is up with the clear plungers on the Popular Mechanics phone?

I noticed those as well.  They are very flat on the top, maybe they came out of a color 302. 

Somewhere on the forum was mention of a 425 type network dated 1/51, which is pretty interesting and somewhat at odds with my findings.  One thing I'm learning is to never say never when it comes to the Bell System, odd stuff turns up all the time that is not supposed to be. 

[Dennis Markham]

Hobie, I don't know why that particular posting expired.  When I was dealing with the photo issue a few weeks back I came upon the section of the forum software dealing with postings and the self-deleting system.  The way it is worded that any posting that doesn't have any activity will be removed after 30 days.  I have tried to change this setting but the software will not allow for change.  I think there are many topics that have not had activity in 30 days but are still present.  Perhaps I can make that topic new again and "sticky" it.  "Stickied" topics are not removed.