Model 302 won't dial out

[Archie]

Greetings Everyone!

Hi I am new here and this will be my first post. I am a retired Canadian Electronic Tech. worked as a support tech for 33 yrs. Phones were not on my list of jobs. Most of the stuff I worked on was found in research labs and physiotherapy clinics. The mind needs a little challenge now and then and I always admired the quality and reliability of the old phones so why not give this a try.

I have several old rotary phones in my home. Some I have had from new and lately I have been buying old phones from e-bay and flea markets. I love the way they are made in a way that pursues Excellence.... Excellence deserves to be capitalized!

It is my understanding that a Northern Electric and Western Electric phones are the same in parts and model numbers but differ in country of manufacture. I will refer to them as WE and NE phones.

I recently acquired a NE 302 phone from e-bay.ca that rings, has dial tone and I can have a conversation on but I cannot dial out with success. The dial out is usually interrupted by a recording that is telling me that I need to dial 1 or that the number I am calling is not a valid number etc. Not something I want to do very often for fear of calling someone at random in some far off country.

The phone base and induction coil have dates of 48. The ringer has a date of 53. The dial seems to be a number 6. I say this because it has 6 on the finger stop and it has a plastic cover on the dial contacts. It matches pictures I have seen on the net of number 6 dials. I would have expected a phone from 1948 to be a number 5 dial am I right?

Another clue I think is that the receiver has a loud click whenever the dial returns to the rest position. This is not like my other phones or my experience with rotary phones. You can hear the sound from several feet away and if you have the phone to your ear it makes you jump.

I have cleaned and tested with a meter all the contacts in the phone that I can see especially the ones in the dial. (contact cleaner and a contact file) The dial when I received it had the sound of a dry bearing that went away when I gently oiled the gear bearings.

I studied a 302 schematic with a number 5 dial and matched up the connections with the number 6 in my phone. They seem to be right but the details of the switch construction are somewhat unclear in the schematic. I have not yet figured out the correct switch sequences as you dial out. I worry that a number 6 won't work in a 302. I have no idea if it ever worked in this phone but when I opened the phone the old dry line and receiver cords were cracking as if this was the first time the phone had been opened in a long long time making me think that it did work once upon a time.

Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks

Archie

[LarryInMichigan]

Archie,

Welcome to the forum.  It may be that the dial is not pulsing properly  A good picture of the contacts on the rear of the dial (without the dust cover) is usually helpful here.  If the the pulses are too wide or narrow, the result may be what you are experiencing.  It certainly is possible to use a #6 dial in a 302, but the wiring is a bit different than for a #5 or #4.

Larry

[paul-f]

Welcome!

Fortunately phones of this vintage don't require rocket science to troubleshoot.  The Western/Northern Electric sets are very well documented and many of us have experience with them.

Try this wiring diagram.  It specifically references 6-type dials...

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2791&Itemid=2

[MDK]

I had problems with the number 6 dial wiring, in that I could not see any markings on the terminals. There are several wiring diagrams out there, but none showed the physical layout of the terminals, and which was which. After some very nice folks here illustrated it with photos, I made my own wiring layout in this thread: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5173.msg64086#msg64086

[Archie]

Archie,

Welcome to the forum.  It may be that the dial is not pulsing properly  A good picture of the contacts on the rear of the dial (without the dust cover) is usually helpful here.  If the the pulses are too wide or narrow, the result may be what you are experiencing.  It certainly is possible to use a #6 dial in a 302, but the wiring is a bit different than for a #5 or #4.

Thanks Larry

Does this show you what you want? I have not posted a picture yet so...... watch out folks!

Archie

[LarryInMichigan]

That shows the dial contacts.  Is that your dial?  The pulsing contacts do not look like they are in the correct positions.

Larry

[Archie]

Larry

Yes!  I took the dial out of the phone to take the shot.

Archie

[Archie]

Here is a close up of what I assume is the pulse contact. It is closed at rest. Confirmed with meter BK to Y contact.


I tested the time with an online stopwatch for the dial to rotate 0 to rest and it was 1.5 seconds. I don't know what it is supposed to be but my 500 takes the same time and it works fine.

Archie

[Archie]

Thanks to Paul-f and MDK I have verified that my number 6 dial seems to be wired correctly.

But it still doesn't dial out correctly.

[LarryInMichigan]

Archie,

In your pictures, it looks like the plastic piece (I do not know what its proper name is) pointed to by the arrow in my picture is not resting in the proper position against the pulsing contact to its left.  This piece is supposed to hold that contact still while the other contact is moved by the pulsing cam.  If that piece is not holding the contact, then your dial will not pulse.  You should be able to watch the contacts while the dial is returning and see if they open and close properly.

Larry

[Archie]

Larry

Thanks for the photo and your attention.

I think I know what you mean and I have observed the contacts open and closing as I slowly allow the dial to return to it's rest position. The "pawl finger " cleverly winds around and positions itself under the "bifurcated pulsing spring" contacts holding them open and letting them close as the cam follower rides the rotating cam. I am suspicious though of the timing. Stuff I have been reading scares me about how long the contacts are closed and how long they are open. This would be hard for me to measure.

[Archie]

Success!

Bad wire to the receiver!

The old electrical tape on the wire got me wondering. How I was able to talk and listen though still bothers me. Replaced the cord with a modern one, just to test and now it works great. I think the loud click I was hearing in the receiver when I was dialling was a hint just did not put it together.

Thank You Paul-F and MDK for the schematics. I was lacking the precise info that these provided.

Thank You LarryInMichigan for your help with the dial. Gave me the confidence to move past the dial as the source of the problem.

One more 302 reporting for service!

[paul-f]

Congratulations!

Enjoy basking in the satisfaction of a job well done.

We're looking forward to hearing of your next conquest.  Experience has shown that fixing a phone is evidence that the phone collecting bug has taken hold.  It's virtually uncurable.