AECo 80E & Phones built on the 80E Platform

[HarrySmith]

You can replace those fingerwheels with ones that are similar to WE. Steve Hilz has kits with the hardware and the new fingerwheel cheap.

[AE_Collector]

Since for the life of me I can't figure out how you guys put text between each picture when you post a bunch at once,

The trick to that is don't use the forum's picture posting method if you want to put text between the pictures, use the "img" command and link to each picture that is hosted someplace on the internet, such as Photobucket.  That way you can post text after each image command. If you have a Photobucket or some other similar photo hosting account (most are free), the command for each picture is usually posted below it in a way for you to just copy/paste.

Thanks for the lesson Brinybay. I have to admit, that sounds like too much work for me! I do have a Photobucket account but most of the pictures I used here are on my computer, not photobucket. I would have to be a lot more organized to do that!

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AE_Collector/

Terry

[AE_Collector]

Terry:  Is this the 85E?  (The label on the bottom has been ripped and is missing the model number.)

A definite "I think So" Paul. I don't actually have a picture or the real thing but all indications would be that is an 85E.

Stub: You said that you have an 85E...is the picture Paul posted the same as your black one?

Terry

[AE_Collector]

What dial or finger wheel is that on the jade 80?  I ask because at least one of my regular ol' AE 80s has the type of dial or finger wheel that is held on with a screw in the middle, and will only take a self-adhesive sticker that looks a little out of place.

There have been 3 clear plastic versions of AE fingerwheels SINCE the metal FW that was used on 40/50's as well as the early black 80/90's.

(1) The first clear plastic FW is as pictured on the Jade Green AE 85 that I posted near the top of Page 2 of this thread. It is a plastic FW with a chromed ring around the numbercard, similar to the ring used around the number card on earlier black metal FW's used on 40/50's. These clear plastic FW's were used on the early colored 80/90's.

Incidentally, with the VERY earliest colored 80/90 sets, AE hadn't yet designed the clear plastic FW so they used chromed metal FW's on these sets. Then they designed the chromed ring type clear plastic FW to use on colored plastic phones.

(2) The second type appeared by the mid 1960's when AE changed the FW to the hollow type that the number card fit inside of and had the pin hole to release the FW from the dial. So far I don't see a picture in this thread of a second type plastic FW, all others pictured so far (except the jade green 85 on page 2) are the third type of screw on FW.

(3) The third and final clear plastic FW type is the one with the screw through the middle that used a stick on dial tag. I believe this type appeared around the time of the 80E (1975) but it could have been a bit earlier than that. All  other Rotary 80/81/85's pictured in this discussion SO FAR have the third type screw on FW.

Terry

[stub]

Terry,
         My 85 is a two line like your pic of the green one . I would like to have one like  Paul showed !!!!!!!!!!!!     stub

[AE_Collector]

Terry,
         My 85 is a two line like your pic of the green one . I would like to have one like  Paul showed !!!!!!!!!!!!     stub

Oh sorry Ken, I just looked at your post back on page 2 and see that you DID say that you have an 85, not an 85E. For some reason I read it as 85E initially.

We didn't ever use 85E's here in BC and even 85's were few and far between. If a single line set wasn't enough, we went straight to the 87 or 187 - 3 line sets. I recall occasionally putting a DPDT switch (we called them "A" Keys) onto single line sets to give access to two different lines.

Terry

[HarrySmith]

This picture of my two tone AE's both have the fingerwheel with the release hole and the dial card underneath. I replaced the wheels that had the screw in the center to install these.

[AE_Collector]

Thanks for posting the pics of the 2nd generation AECo plastic finger wheeels Harry.

Terry

[Greg G.]

Since for the life of me I can't figure out how you guys put text between each picture when you post a bunch at once,

The trick to that is don't use the forum's picture posting method if you want to put text between the pictures, use the "img" command and link to each picture that is hosted someplace on the internet, such as Photobucket.  That way you can post text after each image command. If you have a Photobucket or some other similar photo hosting account (most are free), the command for each picture is usually posted below it in a way for you to just copy/paste.

Thanks for the lesson Brinybay. I have to admit, that sounds like too much work for me! I do have a Photobucket account but most of the pictures I used here are on my computer, not photobucket. I would have to be a lot more organized to do that!

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AE_Collector/

Terry

I make it sound more complicated than it is, but not deliberately.  I use my camera as a photo inventory for everything, not just phones.  That way I get adept at using the camera, plus it's just fun.  Then I use Photobucket as an online backup for the photos.

BTW, this is great info on jazzing up an otherwise boxy and boring looking phone, the AE 80E.

[dsk]

This topic has been most useful for me. Thank you, all of you!

My 80E was quite shabby when I got it, and I have to admit I was a little disappointed. The quality is not superb, and it is maybe one first telphones were the intention not was to repair everything in the field.  When I have used enough time, learend how the dial works,and figured out how to take it apart, what should have oil, and what should not, the dial is working properly again. (But I was not far from giving up) The quality is probably just good enough. Earlier phones was build to last for ever. It  is fun too, when you can repair whats not intended to be serviced, just changed. The changeable front disk is genial, OK I got one in bad shape, but I could make a new one, and I can do it in the color I want.
The finger stop was missing, but it was possible to use something laying around. I like the result:

dsk

[stub]

Here's another 80 E platform telephone. Superphone  7700 , Md# 7710 by  Integrated Circuits Packaging Inc.  1978.  Anyone know where I might find a diagram for this phone?   stub

[Stephen Furley]

This picture of my two tone AE's both have the fingerwheel with the release hole and the dial card underneath. I replaced the wheels that had the screw in the center to install these.

Did those start out that way, or did you swap the parts yourself?

Do the second type plastic finger wheels use the same cards as the older metal ones, or do they need a different type?  I might get one, and the mounting spider for it, for my AE80; I don't really like the type with the stuck-on label.

[GG]

Going back a ways....

In case anyone's confused, all those "calculator phones" and suchlike were produced by independent companies, not by AE.  They would buy AE 80E sets without dials, and add their own circuit boards and keypads and special faceplates. 

One solution to the facemat problem, on the keypad phones, is to get some Contact shelf paper (it's actually thin plastic), and cut it approximately to size, and then stick it on the backside of the translucent faceplate and *very* carefully trim all the edges including the keypad holes.  This doesn't work on the rotary ones of course, due to the numbering.  However, you can do what d_s_k did and make one from scratch using transfer numbering or try doing it on a computer and printing it out, etc.

[GG]

In the 80-series, AE made 85-A, -B, -C, and -D.   

In the 80-E series the only one I know of is 85-E but there were probably others.

The 1973 edition of AE catalog section M (subscriber station apparatus) does not show any 80-E at all; type 80 was still the standard desk set. 

The 1975 edition of AE catalog section M (station equipment) shows that type 80 has been replaced by 80-E.  However, 85-E has not yet appeared; the types 85-A through -D were still current at that time. 

The differences between 85-A through -D were:

85-A had only a press/turn key.  Useful for any of the following: Basic 2-line service (without Hold).  One-line service without Hold but with intercom on the 2nd line (the press function of the key could operate the DC buzzers).  Ringer cutoff.  Extension exclusion (cut off downstream extensions). 

Usage, 85-A for one line with intercom:   
   Incoming call rings on Line 1, you answer Line 1.  Caller wishes to speak with extension user.  You press the press/turn key for example one long buzz, to signal extension user to pick up Line 1.  Extension user comes on the line, all parties can hear each other, you announce the call.  If extension user accepts call, you hang up.  If extension user declines call, they hang up, you take a message. 
   If there is not a phone call, you can call each other on Intercom:  Turn the press/turn key to Line 2, lift receiver, press the press/turn key for example two short buzzes, to signal extension user to pick up Line 2 (Intercom circuit).   

85-B had only the exclusion switch (two buttons) in the cradle: red and chrome.  Pressing the chrome one would disconnect all "downstream" extensions on the line, pressing the red one (or hanging up) would reconnect them.  AE documentation says it could be used for a 2-line switch, which would imply that the switch contacts were different to those on 85-C and -D.  The switch contacts would have to add up to a DPDT switch for 2-line service.   

85-C had both the press/turn key and the exclusion switch.  At casual glance it appears like 85-E but isn't.  Two-line service without Hold, but with optional field modification to add a Hold bridge on Line 1 only.  Useful for one line with hold, and intercom on Line 2 with press button to signal DC buzzers.  The exclusion switch on these phones consisted of one set of SPDT contacts and one set of SPST contacts that would open when the switch was operated: thus not sufficient to operate a Hold bridge across both lines.

85-D, had both the press/turn key and the exclusion switch.  Basically an 85-C but factory-wired with the Hold bridge on line 1. 

Usage, 85-D or field-converted 85-C:
   You receive a call on Line 1, caller wants to speak with extension user.  Press exclusion key to place Line 1 on hold.  Turn press/turn key to access Line 2 which is Intercom.  Press the press/turn key to buzz extension user to pick up Intercom.  You and extension user talk privately on Intercom, so s/he can choose to decline the outside call without the outside caller overhearing. 
   For intercom without a phone call, just turn the press/turn key to Line 2, lift receiver, and press the key to buzz the other phone.

Thus the basic difference between 85-A, and 85-C or -D with Hold was:

On 85-A, when you have an outside call on Line 1, you can't have a private intercom conversation because you can't hold Line 1.  On 85-C and -D with Hold, you can put line 1 on hold and have a private intercom conversation. 

[GG]

Now onward to 85-E: 

85-E was an 80-E that looked like an updated 85-D but wasn't.  The major change was that it had a Hold bridge for both Line 1 and Line 2. 

On 85-E:  The turn key was wired for 2-line service.  The two buttons in the cradle, that were used for exclusion function on the 80-series phones, are now used for Hold on *both* lines.  The press function of the turn key could be used to operate intercom buzzers if you wanted to use Line 2 for Intercom, however this required some minor wiring changes to place it across the third pair on the modular cord, and the intercom buzzers had to be mounted on the wall because the standard modular cord could not accommodate them inside the phone.

Pressing the gray button in the cradle (located where the red button was on the 80-series models) would switch a Hold bridge (basically a coil and a resistor) across each of lines 1 and 2 at the same time.  Thus if you used this as a 2-line phone, you could press the gray button and then just use the turn-key to go back and forth between Line 1 and Line 2.  For example you're on the phone, you get a second call, you press the gray button and it puts the Hold bridge across both lines.  This has actually "answered" that second call, so you quickly turn the turn-key to say Hello before your caller wonders what happened and hangs up.  Yes, this actually works well in practice. 

When set up for one outside line plus intercom, usage is the same as for converted 85-C and 85-D.  Except, the positions of the exclusion buttons in the cradle (now used for Hold on both lines) have been reversed compared to 85-C and 85-D, so if you have both types in service, you have to be careful of which button to press. 

On the rotary version, if I recall correctly (I have one, but I'm not going to test this now), it's wired such that the dial is "before" the Hold bridge, so you can dial an outgoing call even while both lines are on Hold.   (If it had been wired differently, with the Hold bridge "before" the dial, you couldn't dial out.)

In any case, 85-E only had a ringer on one line, so if you wanted 2-line service you needed either an AC station buzzer inside the phone or an external bell box on Line 2, or you could wire another nearby 85-E with its ringer on Line 2, so both people could hear both phones ring. 

All of these 85-series phones are highly useful in a practical sense, if you know their strengths and limits and use them correctly.  For example 85-A makes a good bedroom phone with a ring cutoff switch.  85-E can be used "as-is" for a 2-line set, as long as you don't need to transfer calls on a PBX (though you could always add a "flash" module inside the phone, operated by the press function of the press/turn key). 

If you have to transfer calls on a PBX, use either a 2-line Monophone (the 40/43 series phone with the separate Hold button for each line, oddly one of mine has a code starting with 87 on the bottom, even though it's a 40/43 series phone) or use an 87 or 187 type (the 3-line sets that look vaguely like 1A2 phone but aren't).  Types 87 and 187 have the means to directly send a flash to a PBX (one of the hookswitch buttons on type 87, or the separate black button above the dial on type 187). 

Such was the state of small office telephone systems back in the days when things were "simpler." 

(Apologies for the length of these postings, but they're intended as a standard reference on these phones.)