Hi everyone,
I'm busy pulling cat5e cable through the attic to bedrooms and then to the upstairs laundry room where I am placing the Panasonic 616. I'll have about 13 cables, most of these are for just one phone. How do I terminate the cables for use with RJ11 plugs?
I think I have decided to skip a wall plate termination and take the cables from the stud space thru a cable port like the picture and then directly into the 616 and terminate the cables once.
Thank you,
Tina
Assuming your PBX has RJ11 / RJ12 connectors which is typical for a Panasonic, you cannot terminate those neatly to Cat5 cables - the cable is too thick for the outer sheath to fit in the plug.
If you remove the outer sheath and terminate the required pair(s) into the RJ12 plug, you will lose strain relief at the plug. This is not reliable in the long term and I would recommend not connecting directly to your premises wiring. Instead use a short-ish length of cable (I used 2 x 20 pair) connected between the PBX plugs and either an IDC frame or a patch panel, and then connect on to the premises wiring. A fault in the PBX wiring can then be corrected without affecting the premises wiring.
I used 1 x 20 pair for keyphone extensions 1-8 and external lines to an IDC connection block and then on to phone sockets, and 1 x 20 pair for extensions 9-24 to a Cat5 patch panel for structured wiring. Extns 9-12 and 13-16 are connected to 1 patch panel socket each, but I also have a parallel connected socket with 4 extension lines on it in Cat5e pairs, so I can patch 4 extension lines to any location using just one Cat5e outlet.
Usually 2 pairs are required for keyphones (proprietary telephones) and depending on which Pana you have that is the first 8 extensions.
Owain,
Thank you for your response.
Could you expound on your statement, "Instead use a short-ish length of cable (I used 2 x 20 pair) connected between the PBX plugs and either an IDC frame or a patch panel, and then connect on to the premises wiring." Perhaps with images so I can get a better idea of what you are referring to. I am not a phone technician and I am sure it shows. ???
Thank you,
Tina
Maybe BIX would work for you. Here's a 12 port block and a punchdown tool. I haven't used it personally but the phone system at work does. You punch the wires down into the small slots with the punch down tool, I think they have R(ing) and T(ip) marks for each jack. If you set this up next to your PBX then you can just use modular patch cords to connect it up. If you're going to have distribution points at the end of the CAT5 runs, I think they make these block without the jacks and with 2 rows of connectors so you can connect regular station wire to service individual wall jacks.
I haven't used these personally, but our NorTel PBX at work has them, and the guy that looks after it thinks they're great. Here's a couple of ebay searches:
BIX in Telecom Systems (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osacat=11907&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=bix&_sacat=11907)
BIX in Enterprise Networking, Servers (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osacat=175698&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xbix.TRS0&_nkw=bix&_sacat=175698)
I'm still new to the phone game myself, so I hope this way is ok. I ran bulk cat5 (solid copper). At phone end, I bought a modular wall plate system from Home Depot from a company called CE Tech. The wall plate has 2, 4 or 6 openings that allow you to click a RJ45, RJ11, HDMI or other types of jacks securely in place. The wires terminate in the jacks with an included tool. I mounted mine in a box, which I hide behind the furniture for easy access. I terminated all 4 pair at each room, just in case I needed to expand. I did the same on the PBX side temporarily, and ran regular RJ11 cords to the PBX. Eventually, I'll use a type 66 connection block and custom make RJ11 extensions from the block to the PBX for each line.
It looks like you have a flexible cat5 cable. I'm pretty sure that won't terminate in the jacks I mentioned above. I looked for a simple plug in connector that would separate each pair into an individual RJ11 jack, but I didn't see anything. It has to be out there.
Thank you Podor and Northern Electric!
Podor, That is what I should do at the phone end. When you say, "The wires terminate in the jacks with an included tool," do you mean that the cable termination requires a punch down tool? You have what looks like a Cat5 cable in one of the jacks. I would be interested to see the back side of your wall plate. Did you pigtail connections to the RJ11 jacks from the RJ45?
Northern Electric,
That is what I was thinking for the PBX end of things. If I have a Panasonic 616 with 16 extensions, I assume that I would want the capacity in the punch down block to accommodate them all. Would that be the 24 port block?
Thank you,
Tina
Quote from: cloyd on March 01, 2016, 11:14:59 AMNorthern Electric,
That is what I was thinking for the PBX end of things. If I have a Panasonic 616 with 16 extensions, I assume that I would want the capacity in the punch down block to accommodate them all. Would that be the 24 port block?
I have seen blocks with 8 and 12 RJ11 ports; do they make a 24? Like I said I have not used this personally so I'm going by what I've seen in use at work and a bit of personal research because I'm thinking of redoing some of my phone wiring at home. One thing you should be careful of; CAT5/5E/6 cable is used extensively for ethernet networks and you should make sure you are not looking at RJ45 patch panels designed for that purpose. If you have found a BIX block with 24 RJ11 ports and the dimensions suit the physical layout of the space where you will be installing it then why not? But you could also use 2 8 port blocks; they make little plastic racks to mount them in.
I wired my home using CAT5 cable as well, just like podor. That sort of wallplate system is standard for IT; they are usually refered to as keystone jacks. One nice feature is that they are allow for nearly endless customization; you simply terminate the cable to the appropriate module and snap it into into a plate with the appropriate number of receptacles and you're ready to go. Keystones are available for RJ11, RJ45, most types of coaxial connections, HDMI, and nearly anything else you can think of. The last ones I got I ordered from Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=rj11+keystone
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=keystone+plate
You will, however, probably need a punchdown tool to terminate the cable into the jacks, at least for the RJ11 or RJ45 keystones.
All 4 jacks are RJ11. Each pair goes to 1 Jack in the center 2 pins. The key is to keep the polarity correct. They do need a punch down tool, but they came with a plastic tool that did well. Super easy. It basically wedges the wire in the v cut to cut through the insulation. It's not like a traditional punch down tool that cuts the wire also. I'll snap a picture of the inside when I get home.
I posted these pictures in one of the other topics on this project. Obviously this is much larger than what is needed for Cloyd's project but this shows the BIX frames, BIX strips and BIX modular jacks. BIX jacks are available in 6 - 4 pair jacks (both RJ45 or USOC format), 8 - 3 pair jacks or 12 - 2 pair jacks. There isn't room for 24 jacks on a strip so there isn't a 24 - 1 pair jack configuration, you would need two 12 jack strips. The frames are available in 2 position (holds two termination strips or 1 jack strip), 4 position, 6 position, 10 position and 12 position that I know of. Mine in the picture are both 12 position frames with both termination strips (mostly) and data jack strips.
By far the most flexible way is to terminate on regular strips and then cross connect (jumper) as required. In this configuration you would bring out all the jacks on the Panasonic to termination strips and then cross connect with jumper wire. But more termination equipment (strips, jacks etc) is needed as compared to just crimping plugs onto the ends of the cat 5 cables and plugging directly into the PBX..
My jacks in the rooms are keystone plates as previousy mentioned by others. I chose to put 2 pairs in one jack and then I have one or two more single pair jacks in the plates (some of my set runs were only 3 pair not 4 pair) and then I had room for a 4 pair data run and/or a CATV jack in each plate as well. I did the "two pair" jack at each location as I originally had a NT Vantage PBX that needed two pairs per station. The single pair jacks at each location allowed for direct connection to CO lines and DSL modem etc.
On my left BIX frame the top 6 positions are security system in and security runs out. Then two empty positions with two sets of data strips on the bottom. It is actually three sets of data strips now and no empty spaces. Pictures are old.
The right frame is the PBX (NT CICS rather than Panasonic) at the top with all the stations and trunks terminated on the top two strips and then the set runs throughout the house are on the next 6 strips. The bottom 4 strips are all "bunching blocks". I used to have 3 CO lines and used the bunching blocks to jumper CO lines directly to the "1 pair" jacks in each room for call disokay boxes, answering machines, antique phones, testing etc.
Terry
Mine is not as neat as Terry's. It did look quite neat before I squished all the spare wiring into the space available and put the lids on.
Here's the back of the wall plate.
Here's the actual Jack and tool.
Podor,
Based on what I am seeing in your photos, AT THE TELEPHONE END it looks like you are teasing out the Cat5 cable into four twisted pairs and then punching down each pair in it's V-groove (red/green or tip and ring) of a keystone RJ-11 connector. Is that right? I don't see anything providing strain relief for the cable, but perhaps, since it will be in the wall that is OK?
Did you get the RJ-11 connectors at home depot along with the wall plates? Lowe's didn't have RJ-11 connectors, only RJ-45. If you had to order them online, could I get the part number and source?
Thank you so much!
Tina
Everything came from my local Home Depot. It was all in stock. I even found a 10 pack of jacks, which was much cheaper. They have different colors too, which could be helpful identifying what line you are using. Each twisted pair goes to the respective tip/ring of each RJ11 so there is no need for a splitter/adapter. My setup is in an enclosed box. I tied the cable around one of the face plate screw bosses and gave plenty of slack, so there is no chance that anything would get pulled. No strain relief needed if mounted in a standard wall box.
Great!
I have solved the telephone end of the termination with keystone RJ-11 jacks from HD. What I need for the PBX end of the termination is a patch panel (or whatever) that goes from Cat5E to RJ-11. It is the RJ-11 that is slowing me down. It is easy to find them for RJ-45. When I search, I get lots of products without sufficient description for me to know whether it is what I need. Loads of Telco/IT talk.
Does anyone have a source for me? Also, my PBX which is a Panasonic 616 (RJ-11 x 16 ext) will be mounted in the laundry room so I would like to be able to protect the connections with a covering of some sort. Most of the blocks and panels are modular to fit into a rack or cabinet. Suggestions?
Thank you for the help!
Tina
Quote from: cloyd on March 02, 2016, 03:54:44 PMWhat I need for the PBX end of the termination is a patch panel (or whatever) that goes from Cat5E to RJ-11. It is the RJ-11 that is slowing me down. It is easy to find them for RJ-45. When I search, I get lots of products without sufficient description for me to know whether it is what I need. Loads of Telco/IT talk.
You're bound to get lots of RJ45 search hits if you are searching for CAT5E! Like I mentioned earlier, CAT5E is extensively used for ethernet networks, which use RJ45 connectors. CAT5E is not terribly important as a search term for you because you could be using a wide variety of cable types that contain similar wires.
So, others may have other sources for you, but if you go back to the previous post I made that had 2 ebay search links, you will find some that specifically mention 'RJ11'.
This one here: Nordx Belden Northern Telecom IBDN QCBIX36B Block BIX 36B RJ11 12 positions (http://www.ebay.com/itm/191655387896)
Thank you Cliff!
You are absolutely right, it does say that it is RJ-11 right in the heading. I will look into that one!
On their website, it says that you need a proprietary punchdown tool and they want $80. It must be really nice. ;)
Surely, any decent punch down tool will work or am I wrong?
Thank you for your patience!
Tina
You need a BIX punchdown tool for BIX blocks. Otherwise you won't get the proper connection or may damage the BIX block.
QTBIX16A is the punchdown tool. You'll also need a QTBIX17A test clip. The BIX 36B needs to be inserted into in either a BIX 10A or 10C mount such as on Terry's pictures he posted.
How many extensions will you be using? You could use the same type of system at both ends; You'd use the same RJ11 keystone jacks, and the same punchdown tool. Keystone plates are available in many sizes. I have seen them with up to 12 ports.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDH3X5Q/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004FUYYWG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GAESQWKH870KSDAZJZA
Another good source to get parts from is www.deepsurplus.com. I used all RJ45 jacks in my setup and have some RJ-12 jacks in my parts collection. I used 1 RJ-12 in my kitchen to connect my caller ID unit to. having both RJ12 and RJ 45 jacks really helps because you can have both Ethernet and telephone services at 1 jack.
Quote from: cloyd on March 02, 2016, 05:04:22 PMOn their website, it says that you need a proprietary punchdown tool and they want $80. It must be really nice. ;)
80 bucks? Depends where you shop. ;D
Here's 3 for $30: bix punch tool blade bit all in one tool---- price for 3 tools ibdn (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221768532709)
1 for $27.95 with free shipping: Northern Telecom QTB1X16A Bix Connecting Tool Bix Punch Tool Terminate 22-26-AW (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272131185632)
If you want to go with BIX stuff I have loads of it. I could probably put together a complete kit for you if we can decide exactly what is needed. There are still some gray areas, Chameleon Gray for all you NT guys :)
I have BIX frames, BIX termination strips, BIX jack strips, BIX punchdown tools and test clips and jumper wire. Oh and a couple of types of BIX jacks for the other end of the cables, MDVO and DVO.
If you will have a BIX tool then I would use phone cords from PBX to a BIX jack strip and terminate your 4 pair cables on (non jack) BIX strips. Then you will jumper connections between the jack strips and the 4 pair cables using jumper wire and the BIX tool. This gives you complete flexibility of what lines or stations you send where.
How many 4 pair runs in total will you have to phone jacks throughout the house?
Will there be one 4 pair bringing your telephone line to the BIX panel?
Did you run any data lines as well or just phone?
Is your PBX a 3 line 8 station or larger 6 line(?) 16 station system?
Here are three pictures:
The First Picture is an example of the BIX MDVO jacks in my house. Sorry it is sideways, took it vertically with my iPad. This one has one data run on a black MDVO jack two white tel jacks and one blank filler plate. I also have COAX Cable connector inserts for the MDVO plates. Two can be seen in the third picture.
My numbering scheme is D for data runs, this one being data run 03 and all data jacks are black. The two white tel jacks each have two pairs in them and are fed by one 4 pair cable. Thus they are both T20 (tel run 20) and the ab jack has the first two pairs of the cable and the cd jack has the third and fourth pairs of the cable.
Second Picture is a 10 position BIX frame with two sets of BIX Jack strips with 12 two pair jacks per strip. These woukd be connected to your PBX with modular phone cords. Then there are 6 BIX 25 pair termination strips where your 4 pair cables would be punched down. You probably dont need this many. 6 cables can be terminated on each strip. Also in the picture is a test clip new in the bag and a BIX punchdown tool.
Third Picture is of Jacks for the rooms. DVO jacks at the top of the picture have BIX punchdown connections but don't have individual inserts mounted in a plate. There are single and double jack versions and I may have a couple with 4 jacks in one plate. There are also single and double jack surface mount types.
Below the DVO jacks in the third picture are M(modular)DVO plates and examples of the inserts. These inserts do not use BIX punch downs but are IDC. You feed the wires into the small retainer piece and then squeeze them together and cut off the wire ends afterwards. This takes a bit of practice. The DVO's with BIX terminations are by far the easiest but not quite as flexible as you cant mix different types of inserts in one plate. You need to use a DVO plate that meets your requirements. MDVO and DVO jacks are all 8 position 568A format jacks so they can be used for data or phone.
Terry
Quote from: mentalstampede on March 02, 2016, 05:46:42 PM
How many extensions will you be using? You could use the same type of system at both ends; You'd use the same RJ11 keystone jacks, and the same punchdown tool. Keystone plates are available in many sizes. I have seen them with up to 12 ports.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDH3X5Q/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004FUYYWG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GAESQWKH870KSDAZJZA
Tina, you need to seriously consider the above suggestion. It's the simplest alternative by far. Jacks that are alike on both ends will suffice to terminate your wiring if you don't plan to use it for computers or expand it greatly. You may never need computer wiring if you use a laptop. If you do, you can just get an RJ45 module for both ends and use that.
As far as a cabinet goes, you can look for something at Home Depot like this one at the link below. This cabinet is from Amazon and it's 4" deep and may be deep enough to handle several shallow wiremold boxes with your faceplates on it for about 24 or so jacks. There are knockouts on the top you can use to run your wires in and out.
http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-EB1212-1-Electronic-Equipment-Non-Metallic/dp/B00AAU5D6Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1456975220&sr=1-1&keywords=panel+box (http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-EB1212-1-Electronic-Equipment-Non-Metallic/dp/B00AAU5D6Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1456975220&sr=1-1&keywords=panel+box)
Just my opinion, of course, and it's based on experience after terminating tens of thousands of network wires in all kinds of school locations for about 20 years. I've used patch panels and BIX and 110 and all that stuff and it can get very complicated.
Yes you could keep it simpler without too much loss of flexibility by just putting a jack on each end of the 4 pair cables so you that you wind up with a collection of jacks at the PBX end. The collection of jacks could be mounted in a cabinet or just on the wall and then use phone cords to patch stations directly from the PBX out to the rooms.
To increase the capacity I would suggest putting double jacks on each end of the cables, each jack using two of the pairs of the 4 pair cable. Thus you can patch two stations or a station and an appearance of the CO line to each room. The two pair jacks would also allow for the digital Panasonic phones if your system needs 2 pairs for the proprietery phones.
Also, you can still squeeze up to 4 jacks out of each of the two - 2 pair jacks by using plug in "two line adapters" in each of tge jacks. These look just like the common double jack adapters that plug into a jack to turn it into two jacks but are wired differently inside to bring out the second cable/jack pair to the second jack in tge adapter.
You likely would want your CO line wired to several jacks at the patching area so you can patch it into the PBX as well as directly through to numerous rooms as well.
You could avoid the need for BIX tools and the like by using good old fashioned screw terminal jacks on each end rather than punch down jacks. Likely flush mount (plate) type in the rooms if you have boxes or rings in the walls and maybe surface mount type jacks at the PBX end of the cable runs. You might mount the PBX on a piece of plywood to make it easy to mount to the wall and then you can mount surface jacks to the plywood as well with your new 4 pair station runs terminated directly on the jacks two pairs per jack.
This method eliminates the ability to incorporate data and or coax runs into the same plates and just allows the new wiring to be used for phones but maybe that is all you want to be able to do with it ultimately.
Terry
Thank you everyone for figuring out what I really meant. Wording is so important! I should have entitled this thread, "Simplest" or "Least Expensive Cat5e termination to a PBX." I want to do it correctly and safely but done is good!
I like the suggestion of using wall plates and punchdown keystone jacks on each end of the lines (PBX and phone ends)! I can wrap this limited brain around the idea without having to learn the lingo and buy the extensive equipment of a telecom tech.
I will post pictures of the finished product!
Thank you!
Tina
There, how's that for a new title? Used to be Best Cat5e termination to a PBX?
I eliminated the Cat5e part as well because that isnt what you are doing. It just happens that you are using some of the parts and pieces normally used to build a Cat5 structured data wiring system.
Now to find the topic a better home than in Telephone Repair and Restoration! Maybe we need a "Telephone Cabling, Wiring and Termination" area somewhere, possibly in the switching PBX areas.
Terry
Tina, please keep us posted on your progress. I think simple is always the best way to start something. You can always make changes later and you're pulling wire that will accept many different configurations.
The "jacks on both ends" method is how I wired our first school network. It was so long ago that IBM, our server and workstation vendor at the time, pointedly asked us "You're not going with Token Ring?" like we were making a horrible mistake. We went with Ethernet and never looked back. This had to be 1995 or so.
It was a high school and eventually they outgrew the "jacks on both ends" method and I changed to a patch panel and a rack. I just re-used those jacks, boxes and faceplates in other places. A house isn't nearly as likely to outgrow that method as a school with 35 classrooms.
Be sure to label everything as you're pulling the wire. You can use numbers or, if you have enough room on the jacks, room descriptions. We always used numbers and made a map of the building and wrote the numbers on the map. Then label the faceplates with the numbers on both ends with a Sharpie or a P-touch. A map of all the wiring pulls will also help you plan everything out the most efficient way.
some online vendors for you..... Discount low voltage and deep surplus. (.com) both places sell keystone jacks and accessories. I use deep surplus most of all.... good pricing and wide selection of colored cords. (RJ45) They also sell 25 pair cable if anyone is looking... (Both Cat. 3 and 5E)
Quote from: jsowers on March 03, 2016, 03:15:36 PM
Tina, please keep us posted on your progress. I think simple is always the best way to start something. You can always make changes later and you're pulling wire that will accept many different configurations.
I posted these pictures elsewhere and my brain registered that I had followed up. Here is the link:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15712.msg168284#msg168284 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15712.msg168284#msg168284)
Tina