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Dietz Vesta Lantern

Started by FABphones, June 18, 2022, 04:28:36 AM

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FABphones

This Lantern was at a Vide Grenier this morning.

Tempted, don't see this style much, have only seen similar in photos, but I didn't buy it (€25 chalked to top / $26 ish) as I don't know enough about these (I'm on the lookout for the elusive red gobe). I couldn't read the imprint to top.

Images attached.


A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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RDPipes

I think you made a wise choice walking away from this one.
It looks like it may be missing something and it just doesn't seem right, certainly not for that kind of money.

NorthernElectric

Cliff

TelePlay

Yes, Dietz Vesta railroad signaling lantern.

I don't see anything missing. It has the globe (unbroken), the bail (handle), the fuel font (tank) and burner (thumb wheel showing).

This link is to a recent eBay sold lantern that is in good shape but the seller took the time to show all the parts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134150876489

Dietz Vesta $138 plus $22 shipping.jpg

The one you posted has extra stuff, the black paint.

One thing about these is that the fuel font and burner drop out of the bottom and guy in the caboose would use just the burner as a means to warm up a meal.

The link above sold for $138 plus $22 shipping becasue it was nicely restored, had all the parts and was stamped with a railroad company. Vesta lanterns missing parts go for a lot less.

If the one you saw had a fuel font that was not rusted through, a little bit of TLC and paint stripper would give you a nice lantern. I would have paid $50 to $60 for that lantern, if it was not rusted out.

Mine had pin holes in the fuel font bottom but the POR-15 fuel tank sealer (2 applications, one to seal and one to make sure they stayed sealed) took care of the pin holes.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18901.0

These had colored globes but mainly white since they were used by the conductor or switch man at the end of the train to signal the engineer as to what to do with the train. They have the cage around the globe to keep it from getting broken when swinging it in a circle. Colored globes (red for example) would have been a stationary warning lantern.

Here is a red globe Vesta that sold for $128 plus $12 shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374058477906

Red Globe Vesta $112 plus $15 shipping.jpg

Vesta lanterns always sell for a premium but the sold prices are all over the place due to the condition of the lantern (and its broken and missing parts) being sold.

I think $25 US would have been a deal if the fuel font as not rusted out, pea sized or larger holes (which could be restored with tin plating and solder but I'd never do that).

FABphones

Thanks guys.

Middle of a heatwave, the seller was closely in attendance and I couldn't get better photos. I even went back to it but my lantern knowledge is limited. Darn. I should have bartered.

Getting that paint off would have been a good molasses project. The ones in the photos have come up nice.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

TelePlay

If you get it, Citrus Strip paint remover would take the paint off without harming the patina and then a molasses bath to get the crud off.

Interesting to see a Vesta pop up over there.

TelePlay

When looking at a painted (not by the factory) lantern, look closely because sometimes a thick coat of paint is used to cover heavily rusted areas.

=====

In case you wondered what the different color globes meant in railroading and what the "at night with lantern" signals were from the brakeman to the engineer, this would help.

I can just imagine what the inside of a caboose would look like, in part, with many lanterns, a rack of globes for breakage replacement and color changes if needed, a few 5 gallon pails of kerosene for the lanterns, a box of new wicks and extra fuel fonts with burners filled up and ready to go so switching out a tank on a used lantern would take less than a minute (drop out the used font, insert the filled font).

During the day, they had a whole set of hand signals to get the same message from the back of the train to the engineer.

This chart also includes what the different engine whistle combinations meant.

Life was more romantic in these things before the radios and computer chips were invented.

FABphones

Quote...a thick coat of paint is used to cover heavily rusted areas.

Thanks, I'll remember to look for that.

Unlikely I will see this particular lantern again, shame as it is a style I like but until this thread didn't know enough about what I was looking at.

Appreciate the info, very good.
:)
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

AL_as_needed

I see this is an older thread, but I have been out of the loop for a few years;

I assume the paint was not a factory element. But I know dietz used to make lantern batches and customize them for larger clients. For example I have a Dietz Vest from NYC-RR and it has a similar or same exact coating.

In some places its a bit thin and you can see clean tin below. Is it possible it was something done in the railroad shops as a protective coating? 
TWinbrook7

TelePlay

#9
Prior to WW-II, all Dietz lanterns were tin plated, none were painted.

During the war, they were forced to switch to Terne plating, an inferior coating which was porous to humidity causing rust. The solution was to apply factory paint. According to Lanternnet.com, "Terne plate is not attractive, and not as rust resistant as tin plate, so the Dietz lanterns made from 1943 to 1949 were painted machine gray, which was replaced by metallic blue as the "standard" color."

While pre-war tin plated lantern may be rattle can painted to cover crud, that paint is easily removed. Once off, the crud can be taken off in a molasses bath to expose the true tin plate patina, and each lantern's patina will be different.

Dietz factory paint is very hard to remove and if removed, the Terne plating will not be attractive and will need to be re-painted to keep it from rusting out.

Yes, post war, companies that bought large quantities of lanterns from Dietz could have their name embossed in the fuel tank, their name on the globe and could be painted to a specific color - yellow was popular for city public works departments.

The only exception I know of is a black tar like coating applied by Dietz before the war on lanterns that were to be used in high moisture areas. That coating can be removed, easier than factory paint, and the tin plate under it will be in good condition. I bought a lantern on eBay that had the tar coating and it restored well. That was the only one I ever had like that.

And, yes, a buyer could always paint a tin plate lantern for whatever reason but I tried that once to restore a factory painted lantern and found out that painting a lantern is not an easy task due to the wires, plates, tubes, chimney and burner. So, I doubt companies or railroads painted their own lanterns. Cheaper to buy several lots from Dietz and have the factory do the painting.

I stay away from post war Dietz lanterns due to the factory paint and a high probability that their may be rusted out areas on the lantern. Post war lanterns are near impossible to restore unless you want one for a prop or decoration and won't do anything more than clean the dirt off the exterior.

They still make Dietz lanterns, in China IIRC, and all are painted in several different colors. And, lantern materials and modern paints/coatings are superior to mid-20th century paint.

Hope that helps answer your question.


TelePlay

I stand partially corrected. According to lanternnet.com, some lanterns and lamps before 1943 were painted. IIRC, the tar paint coated lantern I got may have been a wagon/early auto lantern. Here's what lanternnet says if full:

"Dietz only started regularly painting their hand lanterns in 1943, when World War II forced the use of terne plate to replace tin plate. (Street Lamps, and lanterns with a dedicated purpose, such as wagon lamps, fire department lanterns, carriage lamps, etc., were painted before 1943.) Terne plate is not attractive, and not as rust resistant as tin plate, so the Dietz lanterns made from 1943 to 1949 were painted machine gray, which was replaced by metallic blue as the "standard" color. We have not found any documentation regarding original paint colors used by Dietz, however, I have talked to former longtime Dietz employees about the paint colors. It seems that no care was given to maintaining the same formula from batch to batch, which explains why there are so many different shades of Dietz "blue" on lanterns made from 1949 into the 1960's. The shades of red that Dietz used also varies, but not as much."

AL_as_needed

I have seen the terne plated lanterns and yes, not very pretty. Reminds me of a galvanized deck screw haha. Was not aware of the tar coating though, makes sense for outdoor duty items such as a railway lantern. On mine the coating actually almost liquifies on the cap if I run the lantern too high for an extended period (the joys of modern kerosene and lower flash points).

My Dietz blizzard was painted machine gray over the tin platting (1941 example) which made for a neat find when cleaning. Plus the simple fact most of these are 70+ years old leaves a lot variation gained over their lives.
TWinbrook7