1960 5302W?

[compubit]

Shopping at an antique mall today, not having much phone luck, when out of the corner of my eye, I saw what looked like a black 500 deskset in one room.  Looking closer, I saw that it was a 5302, then looked at the back and saw "Western Electric" only below the handle, and a Northern Electric F1 handset on the phone.  I then saw the price of $87.50 and put it back down.  I then saw the signs that I was in a 60% off room - doing the quick math, I knew I was now in the mid $30 range. I grabbed the phone and held on tight. When I got to the checkout, my total was $35. I handed over my 2 $20s, got my $5 change and left happy.

Did some research at lunch in the forum and figured out it was a 5302W - though there is no model number marked on the phone.

Once home, I took a look at the insides and parts are from all over the place:

- Base says 3-51 (red ink) and looks to have an "I" after the 1
- Bell "assembly" says 8/46 (red ink) and someone has replaced the gongs with a metal "button" (see the picture)
- Network says "IND. 101A  |  III 50" (black ink)
- Case has 8   13    60 stamped in green ink (not completely sure of the 8, as the inside of the cover is dirty
- Dial appears to be a 5H with I think a 4-50 date (red ink)
- Handset is Northern Electric with no visible dates on the Bakelite (caps appear to be Bakelite also)
- Transmitter is a 10/3/57 (black ink) F1 element, with patent dates of 1930, 1932, 1934 and 1936 as part of the metal embossing
- Receiver element has a copper housing and a 9/30/41 date
- Coiled cord is vinyl, but seems a little small for what I'm used to seeing in these phones (it's not a flat coiled, just smaller diameter casing)
- On the bottom of pathetic phone is a sticker that says:
FOLD-A-FONE INC.
New York, N. Y. 10007
APPROVED
No. 5302          1972
The "No. 5302" is handwritten.

Based on the number card on the dial, the area code/prefix tie to Mechanicsville, VA, which lists CenturyLink is the current landline provider. Will have to so some research on who was the predecessor company in that area. I also saw a gold NT 500 (with the Helvetica numbers on the dial wheel), and a Stromberg-Carlson Orange Touch Tone Slenderet (plunger not responding on the base, so I passed) there. Richmond proper was C&P Telephone, but there were independents in the surrounding areas.

I guess I'll swap out the NT handset for a F1W I have, then clean it up. The plastic casing looks amazing - the handset not so much...

Any other insight anyone can provide?

I'm happy for $35...

[unbeldi]

5302W ?

I am not sure they made W types of the 5302.
The 5302 was made in the distribution centers of Western Electric for the Bell System company in the territory, and not in the factories.  So, I don't see how they could end up in independents' hands as a W.

They were made from piles of spare parts that accumulated from the volumes of phones that got replaced with 500 sets, between 1955 and 1964 or so.  That's the reason the dates can be all over the place inside.
The proper dial on these was a 5M, or a 6H (because they used a different number plate).
The date on the housing is the only indication of time of assembly.

By the sticker it sounds like an after market private refurbisher was involved and put the NE handset on.

Fold-A-Phone was incorporated in 1969 in Brooklyn.

[poplar1]

1972 may be closer estimate of the date it was assembled than 1960. Black Panther Trading Co. of Springfield, Mass., still had a large stock of NOS 5302 housings as of 1973. We used these to replace broken 302 housings at that time. I don't recall whether we had any 164C-3 number plates.

Is there a way for the user to adjust the ringer on the bottom of the set? Many refurbishers didn't bother to add that feature, but for Bell companies the ringer adjustment was part of the ruse of making customers think they were getting a new 500.

[compubit]

There's no ringer adjustment on the bottom.

I called it a 5302W as the W designation seems to red to WE equipment not used by the Bell System. I've added a "?" into the title.

As for the dial, it's hard to read, and I'll need to take it off to get a better view of the dial number and date.

Here are the pictures I forgot to include earlier.

Jim

[unbeldi]

The  "very adjustable" ringer gong seems to be the Fold-A-Phone special.
Very original. 

In this case I would say the dial could be anything they could find in 1972.

[HarrySmith]

Would be interesting to hear it ring!!

[compubit]

Will get a video of the ring later today.

From what I've been reading here (and elsewhere), any component that fits and works appears to be fair game for these devices...

Jim

[unbeldi]

Will get a video of the ring later today.

From what I've been reading here (and elsewhere), any component that fits and works appears to be fair game for these devices...

Jim

Well, anything goes only what the aftermarket hackers is concerned.  The Bell System had very specific guidelines for the features of these and where in the plant they were allowed to be used, because by the time they were conceived, outside plant construction had shifted to favoring higher gauge wiring, while the 101A-type circuitry was less efficient. Original unmodified sets, even though they were not "new" sets, had similarly exacting specs as any other WECo telephone, all documented in the BSPs.

Look up: BSP Section C32.567, 568, 569, 570 (February-May 1956)

PS: especially C32.568 provides a detailed table of components.

[.....]

If you ever decide to change out the Kellogg's button. I would be interested in buying it from you. I work for Kellogg's. 

[compubit]

Of course I just noticed that it's a "Kellogg" ringer.

Anyway, here's the video of it "ringing".

And yes, autonut, I'll be glad to send it to you. PM me.

Jim

[compubit]

Link to the video on YouTube (site failed on the upload...)

http://youtu.be/kNMFCkzqekU

Jim

[unbeldi]

That's actually rather cool, lol.  I would leave the set as is, if it had shown up at my door.  With that Kellogg plate, it's pretty unique.  Certainly documents the great dark area of true telephone history, more entertaining to display than many 'proper' sets.

[.....]

Of course I just noticed that it's a "Kellogg" ringer.

Anyway, here's the video of it "ringing".

And yes, autonut, I'll be glad to send it to you. PM me.

Jim

It does sound very unique. Thanks I will PM you.

Doug

[paul-f]

We have had several spirited discussions about non-Bell converted "5302s" including this one:
   http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2976.msg40054#msg40054

It is clear that Western Electric prepared kits and instructons for third parties to convert 302s to 5302s.  The info I've seen to date has not included instructions to add any markings to the converted sets.  As David mentioned, it's unlikely that refurbishers would have added markings in any case, as they often didn't add the ringer adjustments and cut any other corners that would result in a saleable set at lowest cost.

David and I have discussed our experiences with Black Panther Trading.  He was fortunate enough to work there, and a few years ago I helped clean out the remaining inventory that was going to a fellow collector in the midwest.  There were several boxes of NOS 5302 housings without Bell System markings.

[andre_janew]

There aren't very many 5302s that you can open up and see and advertisement for breakfast food!  This is the first one I've seen, in fact.  Also, the ringer has a most unusual sound to it.