Help wiring this 30?

[Gilas]

Picked this up the other day and found that it has several odd features.  I have researched it to a point but I'm not sure what wiring diagram to use.  I get a dial tone with the current set up but no break when dialing and no ringing so only 1 for 3.  As you can see it has the Gudeman Tube, B3A ringer baffled, and the condenser is 2 wire.  So any help with this would be appreciated immensely.


Thanks,
Mike

[poplar1]

I think this was a 306 that has been converted to a "302 Special." The silver-colored part is a second capacitor that replaces the tube.  

The red ringer wire on C in the first photo needs to be moved to L1. There should be only one wire on C (the red capacitor wire.)

The phone should be wired just as a 302, only there are 2 yellow capacitor wires in place of yellow and slate.

[Gilas]

Ok changed the C to L1 and hooked it as a normal 302 however still not breaking dial tone and when I try to call into it I just get a busy signal.

[poplar1]

Do you have the flat capacitor connected with red to C and Black to BK on dial?

If so, try temporarily disconnecting the ringer; it appears to be keeping the line offhook which would mean you could not break dial tone and the line would be busy even with the handset in the cradle. This usually means a shorted capacitor in the ringing circuit.

What is the red wire without a spade lug on it?

Also, make sure none of the lugs are touching adjacent terminals or the connection between the induction coil and its terminals.

[HowardPgh]

That metal can looks like an electrolytic capacitor from an old radio.
They tend to dry out and not work.  Also they are used in DC circuits and are polarity sensitive, and won't work well in ringing circuits which is AC.-Howard
PS What is stamped on the metal can?

[Gilas]

Poplar1 you rock!  Sometimes it's pointing out the obvious that make a difference.  I thought I had checked all the connections to make sure that they were not touching but I missed a small touch in there that was making all the difference.

HowardPgh  The can is stamped Gudeman Co. KS-16023

Again thanks for the help guys

Mike

[HowardPgh]

The KS number makes that cap an "official" Bell telephone part.
Gudeman still makes capacitors.  Its neat to see that in a 302-another variation.
I was told that the KS prefix in part numbers is some engineers initials-is  that true?
Howard

[poplar1]

Some say it means "Kearny Specification." Here is another opinion:


http://vintagehifiexperience.blogspot.com/2006/06/fully-restored-western-electric-ks.html

ks spec said...
"KS Spec" definitely does NOT mean "Kearny Spec". I worked in Western Electric's Kearny Works (a full-scale manufacturing location, not just a source of subassemblies) and we were told it stood for "Kellogg Spec". That makes sense, as the earliest KS Specs pre-dated the existence of the Kearny facility. Kellogg was one of the early non-Bell system suppliers of telephone equipment, and Western Electric occasionally made purchases from them, hence the original name of the spec.

[Babybearjs]

why is the red ringer wire on the C terminal? its suppose to be on the same terminal as the red/Wht wire from the dial...

[G-Man]

It is doubtful that the capacitor is oem to that instrument but one way of making sure is whether it is properly mounted. A photo showing whether it has a proper mounting bracket with the screw holes correctly spaced. Also, a photo showing the terminals may also be of assistance.

Otherwise it is more likely the capacitor was intended for use with another WECo product. I noticed that the production date for the ringer is 1950 so it is also likely that if the set was modified by WECo or Bell, they would have used a paper capacitor with flying leads instead of a bulky and more costly electrolytic capacitor. The paper caps were already being used for loud/external ringers and are shown in BSPs as field replacements in 500-sets when the internal ringer cap fails.

Ah yes, the KS debacle! The origin of its designation has been hotly debated by numerous telephone historians and others without a clear-cut conclusion being reached.

From the beginning Kearny or Kellogg specification has been largely discounted, especially since Kellogg and Western were bitter enemies and WECo would certainly never use specifications drawn-up by their adversary.

Some have even contacted companies that used to supply products to Western under KS contracts to see if their contracts provided clues as to what the designation originally stood for, but were without success so the debate goes on!            

[G-Man]

Correction! The use of a KS-16023 capacitor was part of an approved modification for these sets.
It is shown on page-5 in this BSP from the TCI library:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=9130&Itemid=2

It is doubtful that the capacitor is oem to that instrument but one way of making sure is whether it is properly mounted. A photo showing whether it has a proper mounting bracket with the screw holes correctly spaced. Also, a photo showing the terminals may also be of assistance.

Otherwise it is more likely the capacitor was intended for use with another WECo product. I noticed that the production date for the ringer is 1950 so it is also likely that if the set was modified by WECo or Bell, they would have used a paper capacitor with flying leads instead of a bulky and more costly electrolytic capacitor. The paper caps were already being used for loud/external ringers and are shown in BSPs as field replacements in 500-sets when the internal ringer cap fails.

Ah yes, the KS debacle! The origin of its designation has been hotly debated by numerous telephone historians and others without a clear-cut conclusion being reached.

From the beginning Kearny or Kellogg specification has been largely discounted, especially since Kellogg and Western were bitter enemies and WECo would certainly never use specifications drawn-up by their adversary.

Some have even contacted companies that used to supply products to Western under KS contracts to see if their contracts provided clues as to what the designation originally stood for, but were without success so the debate goes on!            

[G-Man]

Also, the capacitor is described in BSP 501-130-100 as follows:

KS-16023 - 1.00 uf Paper capacitor assembled in a metal can with spade-tipped leads. Application- 306-type (MD) tel sets.

[Babybearjs]

someone needs to show him the schematic....... I think he's got the ringer wired wrong...

[Gilas]

John I had accidentally wired it to C.  I changed it when pop brought it to my attention and put it back to  L1.

[Babybearjs]

Gotcha! good luck with the phone. I've got a bunch of the 302's both in the "A" series, and the "C" series.... (manual and dial) I really love these phones because they are smaller then there 500 series counterparts and just a rugged!