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French Grammont phone fragment with antique dial made by Western Electric?

Started by countryman, July 05, 2019, 06:44:12 AM

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FABphones

Quote from: Jack Ryan on July 08, 2019, 04:12:45 AM
....Here is a gaggle of Model 24s....

;D

Thanks, I know that site. Lots of good info there. This book 'Téléphones d'un temps perdu' (image below) is also a very good read, some beautiful phones illustrated (French written text only).

I can see where I have muddied the waters:  PTT (Postes, télégraphes et téléphones) is the former French Post Office/Telecoms. These other models, commonly referred to as type 24 were not state issued phones, hence private exchange only (and therefore no second plaque). I generically call them all 'PTT' not 'type' (note to self: cease immediately).

Trying to dig deeper, and from what I have here, it would appear that any specific individual model name is absent from these 'type' phones, usually using the maker name as a prefix instead, for example 'Jacquesson 24' (or 1924, see below). So accordingly, and about as specific to a model name as I can get right now, countryman's base is part of a 'Grammont 24'.

Additional photos below for comparison taken from above website, and from my French phonecard collection.

Today I have learnt to remember to pay more attention to detail and look at what I have.  ;)

Countryman, I may have a couple of handsets and a cradle but shipping and customs is usually prohibitive. I have many French dials too but they are mostly the later Bonneville dial (to my eye, not so attractive). If you decide to build as near a match as possible from what might be more easily available locally to you, an E1 handset could be considered. A cradle will be harder to find ...but just when you think one will never come along, it often does.  :)

Let us know how it turns out.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

FABphones

Countryman, I forgot to mention, if you get a moment, please add photos of the interior of your base.

And if you need to recover the baseplate, the fabric is held on by the same type of circlip fixing as a D1/B1. Very easy to do. I never had any suede to hand when I recovered the base in the photo below, but one quick trip to a second hand clothing shop and I came out with a couple of long soft suede and leather skirts (one each of brown and black), for about a tenner. Ideal.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

countryman

The interior of the base shows...the naked truth. Someone tidied it up really well  :-\
I'd have no problem to fit a modern network into it. Unlike the PTT 24, this one does have a plunger all the way down into the base for the hookswitch, which is also missing but could be replaced by a microswitch.
I have done a couple of metal fabrications successfully and had thought about making a cradle from scratch...then nickel plating it (never done that)...but if a cradle could be had it might be worth it! You're in North America I presume? Maybe I have a mail adress in Florida later. A friend of mine is there on holiday most any year. Would you sell a cradle that matches or could be adapted? (PM)

For a handset I turned up one from a french eBay seller. It's more like on Jack's phone, a metal handset. The pic wasn't too good, I'll have to see what arrives.

The felt cover of the base is far from perfect but I would not replace it right now. For how filthy the metal parts were, it is even fairly acceptable.

Thanks for all comments and the interesting discussion!

FABphones

Quote from: countryman on July 08, 2019, 01:21:34 PM
The interior of the base shows...the naked truth. Someone tidied it up really well....

.....You're in North America I presume....

...For a handset I turned up one from a french eBay seller. It's more like on Jack's phone, a metal handset.....

Thanks for all comments and the interesting discussion!

Thanks for starting this thread. I have learnt from it.

'Tidied it up' nicely put. ;D   Yikes.

I am in Europe. Where are you located, I originally thought N America but now.....

Crikey, you found that handset fast, and delivery from France too. Well done. Isn't that just the way it happens.

Please keep this thread updated. You are very lucky to have found that base.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

countryman

I am in Dortmund, Allemagne. The phone is via eBay from an antique dealer in Saarbrücken/Sarrebruck. With the changeful french/german history of that town the phone(shell) might have an interesting history as well. The fitting of the Western/BTMC dial might have something to do with it.

countryman

Update on the Grammont. I did an attempt to replicate the cradle from 2.5 mm brass plate, useing a pattern from my PTT 1924. For a permanent repair it would need some more filing and sanding and a nickel plating of course. The cutting was done with an ordinary scroll saw and a fine blade. That did not work too bad, I guess with some practice the result would have been better though.
I stumbled across the handset for an affordable price. It's a french model 1910 handset "adjudication 1938" from the manufacturer AOIP. It's not correct on the Grammont shell but not too far off either. It just looks a little unbalanced on the cradle with it's bulky transmitter cap. Jack's Grammont has the correct handset with a more slim design. But finding such a part will take time and I took what I could get for now.
The handset came quite nasty, but polished up fair. The receiver could be fixed, although it was messed up internally. But the tiny wires were OK and could be reconnected. The transmitter is a LB type but dead and needs replaced. The handset cord had broken wires (fixable) and is a little short for comfortable operation. It has a plug like for a switchboard (?). I fitted a very nice, soft and extendable cloth cord I found lately.
Next step will be creating a network useing modern parts. I will not do any modifications to the existing original shell though! If ever network parts should be found, they might be fitted in.

countryman

Time is a healer.
A parts donor for the Grammont came in. It's a model 24 base with it's innards but no hookswitch, no dial or anything else.
It fits the Grammont "type 24" shell perfectly and even the felt is in good condition.

countryman

What would be the French wording on the dial card in this picture:
?

(Source: https://www.telefoonmuseum.eu/index.php/1920-tot-1940/toestellen-tot-1940)

I can't read it clearly when enlarging the pic and my French is not good enough to guess the rest...

I made card retainer for the Grammont phone. It's not painted yet and far from perfect. I still decided to use it and make a card for it. The English wording on this BTMC/Western 7002 dial is:
"To call /remove receiver / listen for humming sound / pull dial around / to stop and let go"

Etienne

the label reads:
POUR APPELER
METTRE
LE RÉCEPTEUR A L'OREILLE
ATTENDRE
LE BOURDONNEMENT

ENVOYER LE NUMÉRO
EN AMENANT,
POUR CHACUN DES CHIFFRES,
LE CADRAN À SA BUTÉE
ET LAISSER
REVENIR LIBREMENT

meaning:
"To place a call,
lift receiver to your ear
wait for humming sound
dial the number
by bringing,
for each figure,
the dial disc to stop
and let go"
Broken english, sorry. But very much the same as the english version, except french people needed help to know where to place the handset.

If you want to design a copy, although in french accents generally are optional on caps, the original text has acute accents on the proper "E"s, as written above.

I think these Grammont phones were bought by what later became the RATP.

Congrats for your card holders. They're awesome!

Etienne

There were also very simple cards for these dials, here is an example:
http://jean.godi.free.fr/histoire/telephoneraparis.htm

Looks like it was not printed, but carefully handwritten.

I need to correct the text from the "official" card, missing an accent on an A
POUR APPELER
METTRE
LE RÉCEPTEUR À L'OREILLE
ATTENDRE
LE BOURDONNEMENT
ENVOYER LE NUMÉRO
EN AMENANT,
POUR CHACUN DES CHIFFRES,
LE CADRAN À SA BUTÉE
ET LAISSER
REVENIR LIBREMENT

Besides, I have a doubt. The phone you show is a BTMC: even though these phones were sold in France too, the card may be Belgian. Your Grammont is definitely French, so is the card underneath (Juvisy-sur-Orge is a town near Paris, so is Choisy-le-Roi)

Edit: now I'm sure that the card diplayed above is not French (although it might have been used in france on those dials).
Matilo:
http://www.matilo.eu/the-phones/before-1926-metal-and-wood/btmc-2652/
shows this exact card in flemish on the same phone.