A question for Panasonic PBX owners

[Nick in Manitou]

A few weeks ago, in this thread, I was discussing my problems with a Panasonic 616 that I had purchased as "tested" off of e-Bay.

It turned out that the only testing that was done was to check to ensure that there was a dial tone at each of the ports.

I found that I could dial out with rotary phones, but there was only clicking of relays when there was an incoming call...I could not get a mechanical ringer to ring through the system though a modern electronic ringer would function.

The seller refunded my money very politely.  They were very responsive.

There was "brown goop" dripped across the circuit board and since others had had success when this material was cleaned off and the areas cleaned with alcohol, I gave that a try last night.  No better results though.

When I was testing the system out after its cleaning, I was surprised that I could make an extension with a 302 ring with the system turned off, but not when the system was turned on...I had expected that there would be no communication from the extensions when the system was not powered on (or even plugged in).  The other thing I noticed was that if one is listening to the dial tone, its volume drops (but only a little) when the 616 is powered on.  Talk volume is fine through the system.

I am wondering, since I now have this system in hand and have received a full refund for my investment in it, would it make sense for me to replace the board that carries the ringer circuit parts? Are good boards available out there?  I assume that the board I would need would be the one pictured in Unbeldi's response (#26) to this thread, above...the board with the component circled in red.  (Just to make sure that there was no damage to the back side of that board, I pulled it out and checked it, so I know that I am up to the task of removing and replacing it!)

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick

[twocvbloke]

When powered off, the first extensions are connected to the CO ports (CO1 to Ext.11, CO2 to Ext.12, etc., US model numbering of course), so you will get a phone to ring with the system powered off as it's basically operating as a glorified telephone socket...

As for not ringing mechanical ringers, it could be capacitor issues or it could be the ringing current transformer (the smaller of the two inside the unit) is defective, I believe DavePEI uploaded some service manuals recently, should be worth looking at those to see if they can help figure out the issue with your 616...

[unbeldi]

Replacing the board is certainly a possibility, but finding a cheap board is harder.  I have seen parts on eBay but the sellers wanted rather much for them, so that it would be almost as cheap to wait to find a whole unit for around $20-$30, which happens quite frequently.  I think I have seen a power board for $20, IIRC.... $29.00 currently incl. s/h.

You have to make sure to match up the version number of the parts with those in your unit. There were at least three versions and they are not compatible. 

The first six ports of the 616, and the first three on the 308, have power fail relays which reset when the unit is powered off, or when utility power fails, so that the CO lines are cut through directly to the first set (six or three) of station ports.  Therefor the phones ring and you have dial tone directly from the CO line. When the power returns, the relays kick in again and connect the station ports to the PBX.

Your unit is a Version 3 generation it looks like. 

[unbeldi]

This instance presents the often encountered dilemma that older equipment is more expensive to get repaired than it is to discard and buy another.  I could probably easily fix the problem of this unit, and would do so for myself or a local friend, because it is a hobby, but the cost of providing the service to others, with shipping involved and such, makes it prohibitive. Discarding the unit is also a sad event, as it could perfectly function again.  Local electronics repair shops have all gone out of business, it seems.  The only ones left are computer repair shops, so it seems.... and I  wonder how long those are going to last, as the level of device integration makes repair more and more difficult and specialized.

[twocvbloke]

The only ones left are computer repair shops, so it seems.... and I  wonder how long those are going to last, as the level of device integration makes repair more and more difficult and specialized.

From my experience in a computer shop, computer repair is now at a point where it's now just "unplug part A, plug in part B, fixed", it still requires knowledge of what part is at fault and how to diagnose the fault, but, actual repairs, like replacing blown capacitors and the like, is economically not viable, even if it is possible, it won't be worth the time and money to accomplish when you can just grab a replacement part and do a swap...

It's why I'd rather not go back into computer repair work now, it's just too boring, anyone can spin a screwdriver and replace parts, but most would rather throw it away and buy a new one instead of going to the hassle of using their brain to fix it, I prefer vintage stuff now, where back in the day, repairing meant what it says, actually taking fault components off to replace with new and working components, modern stuff isn't like that at all...

Anyway, as for the ringing circuit on this 616, I'd say it is worth repairing as it'll keep one more system out of the bin and in service, considering the price of them can be quite high, it'll be financially worth it....

[unbeldi]

The only ones left are computer repair shops, so it seems.... and I  wonder how long those are going to last, as the level of device integration makes repair more and more difficult and specialized.

From my experience in a computer shop, computer repair is now at a point where it's now just "unplug part A, plug in part B, fixed", it still requires knowledge of what part is at fault and how to diagnose the fault, but, actual repairs, like replacing blown capacitors and the like, is economically not viable, even if it is possible, it won't be worth the time and money to accomplish when you can just grab a replacement part and do a swap...

It's why I'd rather not go back into computer repair work now, it's just too boring, anyone can spin a screwdriver and replace parts, but most would rather throw it away and buy a new one instead of going to the hassle of using their brain to fix it, I prefer vintage stuff now, where back in the day, repairing meant what it says, actually taking fault components off to replace with new and working components, modern stuff isn't like that at all...

Certainly true.

Anyway, as for the ringing circuit on this 616, I'd say it is worth repairing as it'll keep one more system out of the bin and in service, considering the price of them can be quite high, it'll be financially worth it....

High? really?  My average price for these is USD$55 including shipping.
Right now someone is selling a batch of four and I bet those will be selling for less than $50 for the lot.

[twocvbloke]

High? really?  My average price for these is USD$55 including shipping.

I'm going by the asking prices often used over here, some I've seen as much as £150 for a 616 and a couple of phones, usually in "just pulled" condition too...

[HarrySmith]

Could this be what you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291228172131

[unbeldi]

Could this be what you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291228172131

That is the SMDR board. I also contains some of the frequency generators for special tones that the PBX needs.

The same seller has other boards too, but they are from a version 2 system.  He thinks he is going to get more for his system in pieces than as a whole, and with that he may well be right.  Same strategy that some telephone sellers are pursuing regularly.  Except he is probably overpricing the market.

[Nick in Manitou]

Unbeldi,

I am glad that you are able to see that the above referenced unit offered by Magma Sales is for a Version 2.  I assume that the board offered by the same seller at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291228171860 is also for a Version 2?  Is there a way to tell by the photo, or should I contact the seller and ask?  I believe that this is the board I would be needing if it is compatible with the Version 3.

Thanks,
Nick

[unbeldi]

Unbeldi,

I am glad that you are able to see that the above referenced unit offered by Magma Sales is for a Version 2.  I assume that the board offered by the same seller at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291228171860 is also for a Version 2?  Is there a way to tell by the photo, or should I contact the seller and ask?  I believe that this is the board I would be needing if it is compatible with the Version 3.

Thanks,
Nick

I am pretty sure it's a version 2 board. But the power supply board is almost identically looking.  I thought it had a slightly different connector pinout to the main board. I have to check the schematics again to be sure.  I also recall that the voltages were just slightly different on the connector....
I'll take look later...
You can probably tell also because you have your board loose and can see the board part number easily.  Please compare it with what's visible in the sellers pictures.  I would also be interested, btw., just for reference, to compare to mine at some point, but I don't have a unit open and no pictures that show the number sequence.
I have both version 2 and 3 systems.

[Nick in Manitou]

I put my board back in after cleaning it to see if it would work.

I will go pull it out to check its number - both to see if it matches the one for sale, and just for documentation sake.

[unbeldi]

ok, just took a look.   The version 2 board has 2 12-pin connectors, while the version 3 board has 9-pin and a 7-pin connector.
When I look at the board on eBay, it has 2 12-pin connectors, one socket and one plug on a ribbon cable.
So, yes, they are not at all compatible.

[Nick in Manitou]

The part number on the board in my unit (a version 3) is: PQUP563ZB KRK-6794V-0

I have attached a photo of the board in the unit, before I removed the "brown goop". (It looks better now but still doesn't function as it should.)

The connectors in the top left of my board are definitely different than those in the unit for sale on eBay.

Shucks...

[Nick in Manitou]

For posterity, I figure that I should post the photo of the Panasonic Version 2 board so that it will be available to others in the future.