Trying to date a 533A from the Herbert Grand Hotel

[zaphod01]

533A arrived today. Seller had 8 of these. 3 were described as:

"This Western Electric Antique 533A Hotel Wall Telephone comes exactly as pictured.  This is a great display piece that is fully intact, but it does contain some scratches and flecks of paint from redecorating over time since the phones were first installed in the Herbert Grand Hotel (Kingfield, Maine) in 1918.  We recently removed all of the antique telephones from our hotel, and they are original to the building.  We have had to cut the wires connecting them through the walls to our switchboard, and we are selling them with full descriptions regarding their condition.  The phones contain the original schematics clearly readable within the metal case.

We have three telephones that are in EXCELLENT condition, with perfect speaker horns, original cords free of fraying, great sound tone.  This is one of them.  We have detached carefully the speaker horns and will wrap these perfect but delicate Bakelite items in extra bubble wrap so they travel well."

To my novice eye, it looks completely original. There's some paint splatter but the phone is essentially spotless.

It has a decal (intact) instead of Western Electric stamped on the case. I love the thread binding on the receiver cord. Transmitter is a 329W. I really think this is a one-owner phone.

Anyone have an idea of when this phone could have been built?

[unbeldi]

The 329 transmitter was first built in 1912.

Is there a type number on the induction coil?  It looks like it may be a #20, which was used until about 1918, when it was replaced with the No. 46.
Another clue as to age is the size of the condenser, is it a 1 M.F. or 2 M.F. type No. 21?  Until about 1916, the standard condenser has a capacity of 2 µF.

[zaphod01]

I don't see any obvious markings on either the coil or the condenser (pics attached).

[unbeldi]

Sure looks like a No. 20 induction coil.
The condenser identification is probably hidden under the wooden connector block.
Since the hotel was built in 1918, I would think that these phones were brand new when the hotel was equipped and I would date them in 1917 or 1918, unless there is some other evidence that they were installed later. I don't know how long WECo's supply of No. 20 coils lasted after manufacturing, but they continued in use into the 30s. In the 30s they were converted to No. 120 induction coils by adding a third winding for anti-sidetone operation.

[zaphod01]

Thanks! There's two more of these out there ending today.

[Sargeguy]

That is one nice 533A!!!  I see another one of these sold for $122.50, what I would consider a record price for a 533A!  These can usually be had for less than $50, or $25 without the transmitter.  They are usually repainted.

[unbeldi]

That is one nice 533A!!!  I see another one of these sold for $122.50, what I would consider a record price for a 533A!  These can usually be had for less than $50, or $25 without the transmitter.  They are usually repainted.

Indeed. I couldn't get one because the prices just went a bit beyond expectations.  Should have taken the early BIN ones, less perfect they may have been.

It is a nice find to have one of these, actually knowing where they came from and when they were made.

I have been trying to date these in fact for a while, because the No. 3 catalog (1916) does not contain them yet and I don't have a No. 4 catalog, and during this time span a lot of components were changed at WECo.

I believe it is pretty conclusive that these were newly manufactured around the time the hotel was built.  This find narrows the introduction of the 533 to 1916-1918.

[Dennis Markham]

Well I'm a little embarrassed to say I was the buyer of the one that sold for $122 and some change.  I put in a sniper bid and thought the amount I put in would cover other bids.  Guess I was right.  I think a little advertisement here on the Forum helped.  But no regrets, I think it's a nice unit and knowing the origin (history) makes it worth while.....to me anyway.  It's something different for my collection.

~Dennis

[zaphod01]

They listed three of these as 'EXCELLENT'. It appears they used photos from one phone in the listings for all three. Only one of them had a BIN price. I paid $79.99 for mine. They also listed a lot of 2 and a lot of 3 for a total of 8 phones.

I assumed they would remove the mouthpiece for shipping, as noted in the listing. They actually carefully removed the face of the transmitter with the mouthpiece still attached. Well packed in a large Priority Mail box. I knew it was a pig in a poke but it was a rare chance to obtain a 'one owner' 533A. I'm very happy to have this phone.

The phone was spotless inside! The only unusual thing was that it was missing one hinge. There was no evidence that one had ever been in place. Fortunately, I had a hinge and screws in my spares. I need to polish it to match the other one!

[Sargeguy]

Trying to date a 533A

As much as I love old phones I never tried to date one.  We're just friends.

[zaphod01]

Cheating on the wife with Ma Bell...

[unbeldi]

Trying to date a 533A

As much as I love old phones I never tried to date one.  We're just friends.

Dating is often the only way to find out how old they really are.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

Trying to date a 533A

I love this hobby, but I don't think I'll ever love it that much...

[Dennis Markham]

Well I'm a little embarrassed to say I was the buyer of the one that sold for $122 and some change.  I put in a sniper bid and thought the amount I put in would cover other bids.  Guess I was right.  I think a little advertisement here on the Forum helped.  But no regrets, I think it's a nice unit and knowing the origin (history) makes it worth while.....to me anyway.  It's something different for my collection.

~Dennis

I change my plea on this comment.  I am not embarrassed to say I am the buyer at the higher price.  I removed the phone from the box today.  I'm extremely happy with my purchase.  This telephone is exactly as described and in outstanding condition.  Considering that nearly 100 years later I am the second owner (after the hotel) to have this phone, and knowing where it was all these years makes the purchase price well worth it in my eyes.

~Dennis

[unbeldi]

Well I'm a little embarrassed to say I was the buyer of the one that sold for $122 and some change.  I put in a sniper bid and thought the amount I put in would cover other bids.  Guess I was right.  I think a little advertisement here on the Forum helped.  But no regrets, I think it's a nice unit and knowing the origin (history) makes it worth while.....to me anyway.  It's something different for my collection.

~Dennis

I change my plea on this comment.  I am not embarrassed to say I am the buyer at the higher price.  I removed the phone from the box today.  I'm extremely happy with my purchase.  This telephone is exactly as described and in outstanding condition.  Considering that nearly 100 years later I am the second owner (after the hotel) to have this phone, and knowing where it was all these years makes the purchase price well worth it in my eyes.

~Dennis

With that admission, I am sure you will be willing to exchange it to me sometime when you have another phone capturing your immediate attention and joy.  Right?

I am embarrassed that I let you have it, LOL.