How to recover suede feet

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
What is your opinion of pigskin suede ?
I contacted my local Tandy store and the lady argued back and forth for awhile that pigskin suede would work great and look great, I argued that it was for vintage restoration and must be perfect match. She reiterated that pigskin suede in chocolate would be perfect for the feet. I ordered 7 square feet at $1.45 a foot. I will send you a piece when it gets here.
D/P

[bingster]

I bought ivory sheepskin suede for a 202 bottom not too long ago, and even that was a perfect match (material, not color).  I don't think it really matters what kind of animal it comes from as long as it's sueded and is roughly the proper thickness

[Dan/Panther]

Well I picked up the Pigskin suede, and I'm not real happy with it.
can I have some opinions as to whether it will work ?
Both sides are about the same, so here are photos front and back. I'm wondering if they were brushed after mounting if the suede would puff a little ?
Dennis, and opinion ?
D/P

[LarryInMichigan]

I think that the big question is if the phone will slide on the feet after they have been covered with the new suede.  Will the suede provide enough friction to keep the phone still on an ordinary surface while dialing.

Larry

[dencins]

Well I picked up the Pigskin suede, and I'm not real happy with it.
can I have some opinions as to whether it will work ?
Both sides are about the same, so here are photos front and back. I'm wondering if they were brushed after mounting if the suede would puff a little ?
Dennis, and opinion ?
D/P

D/P

The first issue will be installing and that will depends on thickness and softness.  I would assume pigskin is very soft so that should not be an issue.  Thickness should be between 0.036" to 0.040".  If you exceed 0.040" it becomes difficult to get the plates together.  If it is below 0.036", the interference fit that holds the plates together is marginal.  Thickness was a key attribute to WECo.  You can see this on pg 68 of the 1939 From the Far Corners of the Earth found here:

http://www.telephonearchive.com/pdf_page/assets/pdf_originals/WE_1939_BKLT_DM_Far_Corners_of_the_Earth.pdf

As far as the suede look, you might try using sandpaper (600 grit?) to rough up the leather before installing it.

Possibly it is the picture but it looks a bit light for chocolate.  You can compare itto the color to the pads I sent you.  Those are from Chocolate Sheer Cowhide Suede.

Dennis

[Dan/Panther]

The suede is a lot darker in person, but anyhow I chose to return it for cowhide suede.
The pigskin turned out to be .025 thousandths thick, and according to Dennis it's way too thin, it's 1.5 oz.
They said they would credit me towards cowhide.

D/P

[winkydink]

.....  The one I found that matched the WECo suede in thickness and softness was the Sheer Suede Splits from Tandy Leather but the problem is they only sell in 12 sq ft minimum order.

.....
Dennis 

Dennis,

can you post a link to this particular type.  I have looked all over their website and have not been able to find "Sheer" Suede Splits.  If I am going to order the suede, I want to make sure I have the correct item with the CORRECT THICKNESS.

Thanks

-Jim

[dencins]

Tandy Leather changed the name (and price) for the suede.  What they used to call Chocolate Sheer Cowhide Suede they now call Premium Garment Cowhide Suede Split Chocolate Brown.  They still have the 12 sq ft minimum so a piece plus shipping is about $60.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/cowhide/9105-02.aspx

This comes 2 oz to 3 oz thick.  An oz in leather roughly translates to 1/64" so this suede is 2/64" to 3/64" thick.  In decimal that translates to 0.030" to 0.047".  WECo used 2 oz to 2 1/2 oz leather whcih was 0.030" to 0.040" so it is possible (and likely) that some of the suede will be difficult if not impossible to assemble.  I measure the suede with calipers to find the thickness within the piece that works.

If anyone is interested I still charge $7.95 to recover a set of four footpads plus $2.00 return shipping per order for 302's and Galion.

I also do leather 500's which includes removing and installing the rivets if you send me the base for $7.95  per set of four plus return postage.

Dennis Hallworth

[winkydink]

Tandy Leather changed the name (and price) for the suede.  What they used to call Chocolate Sheer Cowhide Suede they now call Premium Garment Cowhide Suede Split Chocolate Brown.  They still have the 12 sq ft minimum so a piece plus shipping is about $60.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/cowhide/9105-02.aspx

This comes 2 oz to 3 oz thick.  An oz in leather roughly translates to 1/64" so this suede is 2/64" to 3/64" thick.  In decimal that translates to 0.030" to 0.047".  WECo used 2 oz to 2 1/2 oz leather whcih was 0.030" to 0.040" so it is possible (and likely) that some of the suede will be difficult if not impossible to assemble.  I measure the suede with calipers to find the thickness within the piece that works.

If anyone is interested I still charge $7.95 to recover a set of four footpads plus $2.00 return shipping per order for 302's and Galion.

I also do leather 500's which includes removing and installing the rivets if you send me the base for $7.95  per set of four plus return postage.

Dennis Hallworth

Thanks for the info !

$60 is a tittle steep for me right now.  I am in the process of restoring about 6 or so 302's for (hopefully) Christmas gifts, so I kind of want to learn how to do this myself.  I have used your service in the past (several years ago) and you did an excellent job !

I was wondering if this item on ebay MIGHT be worth the risk as it looks like it matches the description on the other web site.  I realize it is only for 1 sq ft, but I might be able to recover all or most of my feet with this quantity, or I may go with 2 sq feet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheer-Cowhide-Suede-Splits-2-3-oz-4-Color-Choices-/390219468499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=


I might just take the risk for $10.00 but would like to bounce this off the forum members first. 

Thanks in advance.


-Jim

[dencins]

I have not seen this before but the words sound right.  They do not list the colors but one looks like chocolate brown.  First time I have seen 2 - 3 oz suede sold in smaller pieces.  Real good price for anyone wanting to do footpads on a few phones.

Dennis Hallworth

[winkydink]

I have not seen this before but the words sound right.  They do not list the colors but one looks like chocolate brown.  First time I have seen 2 - 3 oz suede sold in smaller pieces.  Real good price for anyone wanting to do footpads on a few phones.

Dennis Hallworth

Thanks Dennis,

I decided to take the chance and purchase 2 sq ft.  I will let the forum know what the quality is and how I make out.


Since this will be my first time doing this, I may not know if any problems are due to material or "user error".  We shall see .....

-Jim

[winkydink]

Well I received the suede from ebay and the felt from amazon.  Both pieces were about 12" x 24".  I am pleased with the look and overall quality.

I have posted some pictures below, and will attempt to recover some foot pads today.

[winkydink]

Well Dennis (and others),

I am just about to throw in the towel on this one.  I have made the wooden template for the suede, felt and bottom metal piece to fit into.  I have made the recess area 5/16" to 3/8" deep.  I have also tried to make the pattern for the suede following you pictures.  However every piece I cut is too big or too small.  On the big pieces I try to trim and I wind up too small with some gaps.  Getting the correct size to me is the critical step and I have yet to do it.

One or twice I though I had the correct size but then I could not thread the screw to tighten the top piece into the bottom.  I have re-read the directions and I am confused.  Am I supposed to get a different (non mounting) screw / bolt to bring the two metal pieces together or use the mounting screw.

In anycase I wasted about 4 frustrating hours yesterday with nothing to show for it except frustration and admiration for those who can do this successfully.

Dennis, I may use your services to recover the feet for 6 302 phones.  Could you point me to your site, or send me a PM as to proceedures, cost etc.

Thanks.

Jim

[dencins]

According to my records I have recovered about 2000 footpads and I have only used the original screws to assemble them.  As long as the suede is the correct thickness and you do not have too much bunched up between the plates, they go together.  If you have calipers, you could measure the thickness of the suede.  It needs to be less than 0.040" to fit properly.

I sent you a pm on cost, etc.  I have an album with some of my work here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/dencins/     ---> dead link 6/21/17

Dennis Hallworth

[TelePlay]

You can see the process I use here:

http://atcaonline.com/Footpad.html

Not being critical but a few of comments:

1.  302 footpads should have a 1/8" felt cushion.  Only the 1936/1937 riveted on footpad did not have a cushion.  Pre-WWII footpads used something like black tar as a cushion but post-WWII used 1/8" felt cushions.  This also helps keep the leather tighter.
2.  Using suede 0.030" to 0.040" thick reduces the effort to get the suede tucked in between the plates.  Thicker suede tends to bunch up at the corners.
3.  The original color used by WECo was chocolate suede.  Same color was used for WECo candlesticks, A1, B1 and D1 desk stands when done in leather.  Difficult to tell the color from the outside of a footpad but if you find an original one in reasonable shape, the inside of the suede will be dark brown.  Probably just me being picky or maybe it is the lighting but your suede looks a light tan.  

Dennis

Tried this method for the very first time today. Used some 2.5 to 3 ounce suede I bought at Tandy Leather.

Took me 20 minutes to cut the wood jig using a Dremel tool with a router bit, cut both suede and felt patterns out of blister pack using one good cover and felt pad, turned a half inch long 8-32 bolt into a capture tool using a few washers and a nut making the thread length just right, and then put new covers on four 302 feet in less than 45 minutes - the first one took me 15 minutes, the others, about 5 minutes each. Fast learning curve. This method really works well.

The first picture is the base (to be repainted later) with the new feet (with some sawdust on the suede) and the jig I made. I think making the jig a quarter inch deep with sharp egdes and a tight fit makes the crimping of the suede into the foot very easy. Under the blue painters tape are the plastic felt and suede patterns and under that there is a hole holding the bolt I used to hold the insert in place while I worked the leather evenly under the insert.