Anyone into old lanterns? (The Sequel Part 4, The Epic Project)

[TelePlay]

The last lantern is done except for taking and posting the after photos in that topic. Took it to the antique mall where I bought it to show what sweet water will do and again, they were impressed.

While there, I spotted a very old (3 out of 5 stars rare on their rarity scale) Dietz top lift D-Lite lantern. According to the W.T. Kirkman site, these were only made from 1912 to 1919. This is what they say about this lantern in their facts section"

""The "D-Lite" style of lantern was first produced as the "Nu-Style" lantern by C. T. Ham in 1912, the same year Dietz introduced the "D-Lite."  Both lanterns utilized the "Short-Globe" lantern patents of Warren McArthur and his son Warren McArthur Jr., and featured a top-lift telescoping chimney, making them the most expensive hand lanterns produced for general use in their day.  The most notable feature of the McArthur design is the easy to clean globe, which has the largest apertures amongst the hand lanterns.  In 1914, the same year Dietz bought the C.T. Ham Mfg. Co., Dietz introduced a less expensive "Short Globe" lantern, the "No. 2 Wizard" with a standard side lift similar to the Dietz Blizzard.  By 1919 the similar models were merged, resulting in the modern "No. 2 D-Lite." (Note that the first generation "Top-Lift" D-Lite model was not marked "No. 2").  The first variation of the Dietz D-Lite, (Top-Lift style,) was made from 1912 to 1919, and is easy to identify as the globe hinges to expose the burner rather than lifting.""

Problem is the lantern is more rusted than the last and because the burner fits into the font rather than sitting of the top, I fear the burner my be rust welded in place and difficult to remove without destroying the burned and lantern. Kirkman has a "very rare" replacement burner available but they want a very high $45 plus shipping for one. Burners for the newer No 2 D-Lite are $4.95 plus shipping.

The lantern is coated in rust but it has the lantern's original clear globe which I found to be rather thin glass. They want $25 for it but I don't know if I want to take on that challenge. That means I'll probably but it tomorrow . . . 

[TelePlay]

The lantern is coated in rust but it has the lantern's original clear globe which I found to be rather thin glass. They want $25 for it but I don't know if I want to take on that challenge. That means I'll probably but it tomorrow . . . 

Sent an email to Woody Kirkman at Kirkman Lanterns asking about the burner and sent a picture of the lantern. He told me the burner, since it fits into the font, is notorious for becoming rusted in place but said Kroil or PB Blaster might work.

He also said I found a lantern that has a brass fuel font and top chimney. Those are the greenish parts in the photo below. The stuff in between is tin plated metal covered with heavy red rust.

Knowing this was a rare lantern, replacement burners were available at a price, and it would have a brass top and bottom, I got to the store when it opened and it was still there (not surprises) and took it home for $24.70. Took photos and covered the burned with PB Blaster. It should look great with a polished brass fuel font and chimney. Can't wait to get to the de-rusting phase, after the burner is removed, one way or the other.

The cocoon, dead moth and other organic parts that came with it were removed from the burner before the photos were taken.

When restored, this could be a $250+ lantern . . .

[AL_as_needed]

Glad you took the leap of faith, the crustier the piece, the more rewarding it is once revived. the brass will definitely set it apart once its all cleaned. Time again for the old molasses and compound bucket!

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After soaking the rusted in burner with penetrating oil for over a week, I degreased the lantern and put it into the molasses bath for two days. Pulled it out today to give it a gentle rub down with Brillo and the rinse all of the dried on debris and bugs that were inside the lantern - forcing hot water into the fuel font filler is a great way to blow out the air tubes.

The molasses is working and the brass is coming around. Can't wait to see what it will look like after it gets the Brasso treatment.

The chain and spring device installed is to put about 8 pounds of upward force on the rusted in burner to encourage it to some day break free. The lantern guy said it could take up to 3 months to get it out in one piece. I'm planning on an ultrasonic bath for it every two days to help it along. 40 kHz bubbles may do the job.

Anyway, here it is rubbed down, rinsed and still wet before going back into the bath. Ah, if phones were only this easy . . .

[TelePlay]

Came to a decision point on this lantern.

It's cleaning up nicely but under the crud I've found quite a few stress cracks in the chimney and the fuel font. If it is to be restored to working condition, I would have to coat the inside of the fuel font to prevent leaks.

There are no major issues other than the burner is still stuck in place. Moves ever so slightly but would need a lot more work and time to get it out in one piece. The solder joints where the bottom of the air tubes meet the fuel fond are gaped and should be re-soldered.

The lantern was made on July 22, 1913 (finally got the air tube clean enough to read the date stamped into it) and during its use has received a few dents but nothing more than character building stuff.

There is still some rust on the air tubes and crud on the burner, burner mount and globe plate parts but stopped the soak in order to dry it off and take these pictures.

The decision is to keep it as is as a display lantern only, sell it as is and let someone else take over or put it back in the molasses bath and hopefully remove the burner some day.

Ah, what to do, stick another $60 into it or not. Something to think about for awhile. But, it sure does look nice.

[Dennis Markham]

It is really looking nice, John.  Much improved.  You have so much time and effort into it you may as well keep it.

~Dennis

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Thanks, Dennis.

I took those pictures outside in direct sunlight so they could be compared with the first pictures posted. I set the lantern on the kitchen table and closed the door. In low light, the brass almost looks gold. Humph, gold plated lantern? Would be nice. However, the metal under the brass seems to be copper so it could be brass plated copper, or something like that. Don't know.

[TelePlay]

Was cleaning up the mess I made this morning when I cleaned the lantern. I took the "traction" device off and set it aside. Picked it up a bit ago to store it when I noticed the zinc steel turnbuckle used simply dissolved after being submerged in the molasses/water bath for about 5 weeks. This was a bright, shiny piece of metal when first put into the bath.

The top arrow points to a spot that was completely eaten through. The bottom arrow shows about 60% of the metal gone. Another few weeks in the bath and it would have failed - had about 8 pounds of pull on the bottom two chains.

The lantern does not, none I have ever done, have shown any type of metal degradation as this. Amazing how powerful the chelating agents in molasses can be on some metals.

[twocvbloke]

The zinc being dissolved isn't surprising to be honest, on metal-hulled boats they use sacrificial zinc anodes to prevent the hull from being eaten away by electrolysis (caused either by poorly wired shore-power and boat electrics, or through natural processes that create small amounts of electricity around the boat in the water), in this case it's the coupling of the chain and the zinc turnbuckle with the molasses & water acting as an electrolyte which basically made a battery...

Got to be careful with submerging dissimilar metals...

[RotarDad]

John - The lantern really does look awesome!  Just the right balance of clean and patina.  It would look sharp as a display-only piece.  I appreciate your purest approach of wanting it back in working condition.  It bugs me if one of my phones doesn't work properly, even if it won't be used.  It is nice knowing you could "fire it up", even if you probably wouldn't.  Still - it is a thing of beauty as is, like a vintage aircraft restored to "static display" status for a museum.....

[TelePlay]

John - The lantern really does look awesome!  Just the right balance of clean and patina.  It would look sharp as a display-only piece.  I appreciate your purest approach of wanting it back in working condition.  It bugs me if one of my phones doesn't work properly, even if it won't be used.  It is nice knowing you could "fire it up", even if you probably wouldn't.  Still - it is a thing of beauty as is, like a vintage aircraft restored to "static display" status for a museum.....

Sage advice taken well. Yes, you are right. This 103 year old lantern may just be too fragile to fully restore it. The thin brass chimney and fuel font have way too many stress cracks, much worse that I would have expected before starting to clean it. It's to the point that the chimney may have to be reinforced from the inside and the lantern has to be taken apart to do that, something I was told is not easy to do. Then, the fuel font stress cracks leak so the inside would have to be coated.

Then there's the stuck burner. I was told this was the first Dietz design and the worst anyone every came up with. It was made so the burner slipped down into a cup leaving the friction fit surface open to rusting tight. The first picture below shows the full burner in its current state. Still some crud but easily removed with a dremel wire brush. You can see how the burner fits down into a "well" with only a thin ring at its top edge resting on the fuel font burner well. The only two point than can be used to lever the burner up are the wick adjuster shaft on the right and it's pointed short end on the left. The technique to apply pressure upward is to place a flat screwdriver blade under the shaft and point and twist the bladed putting upward pressure on the burner. Too much pressure will bend the shaft, easily straighten once or twice.

The second picture shows the ring (yellow circle) and the shaft entrance (red circle). Looking at the shaft entrance, it looks like there is about a half inch of metal to metal contact between the burner and the well - a lot of surface to break free given only those two lift points.

Took the lantern down to the bench and noticed something rattling in the fuel font. Turned out to be the retainer used to keep the original fuel cap from getting lost and a cork, well blackened from kerosene. I was wondering why the lantern still smelled of kerosene after being soaked for a month. It was the rotten cork which came out in pieces (3rd photo below). Smell all gone now.

So, will take the sage advice leave it as is, just a bit of finishing detail work and oiling left and then on to the shelf.

[TelePlay]

The zinc being dissolved isn't surprising to be honest, on metal-hulled boats they use sacrificial zinc anodes to prevent the hull from being eaten away by electrolysis (caused either by poorly wired shore-power and boat electrics, or through natural processes that create small amounts of electricity around the boat in the water), in this case it's the coupling of the chain and the zinc turnbuckle with the molasses & water acting as an electrolyte which basically made a battery...

Spot on, twocv.

Before I dumped the bath, I put the chain/harness on a board, attached a wire to it and put it back into the molasses. Then the fun began. I know there is a galvanic physical chemistry principle for this but I don't have the time to look up the numbers for metals. Anyway, here's what I recorded.

Metal on the left is the reference electrode placed in the bath along the side of the pail.
The number to the right is the voltage recorded.

Pure Copper Wire (12 gauge)    ~+0.720 V
Stainless Steel Rod (1/8")          ~+0.600 V
VOM Probe Metal Point               ~+0.550 V
Aluminum Wire (12 gauge)         ~- 0.370 V
Zinc-Steel Plate                          ~- 0.330 V
Galvanized Conduit                    ~- 0.190 V

Using the copper wire, I measured about ~ 1.4 mA current.

Almost seems this could be a test to determine the metal used as the reference probe. Didn't have a carbon rod handy. Interesting, isn't it. So, learned a lesson there. Not a complete analysis but one which was somewhat informative and fun to do.

[twocvbloke]

The main reason I knew about the sacrificial anode stuff is I'm into narrowboats (often incorrectly referred to as a "barge", and used to navigate the UK's canal system & navigable rivers) and learned a lot about why they have the anodes fitted on the steel hulls, aswell as why galvanic isolation's a good idea when it comes to shore power...

Ain't electrickery fun? 

[19and41]

Nice work!  The lantern shows it's age without looking artificial at all.  That is a good treatment.

[TelePlay]

Well, contrary to my better judgement, I never leave good enough alone.

The burner was starting to move up so I thought it was going to come out in one piece. Yes, the top rust weld was broken and the top mounting burner ring was free but what I didn't know was the bottom ring was still frozen solidly to the bottom burner mount cup and in hindsight, there was no way one could ever get penetrating oil onto that rust weld short of soaking the bottom half of the lantern in 3 gallons of penetrating oil.

So, the burner came out, in pieces. In the first picture below, the two images on the left show my new (restored) old burner that set me back $42.50 plus shipping. It was not a NOS burner. Most likely a burned salvaged from a lantern beyond repair. I got most of the dirt and rust off of the "new" burner except for that in the corroded part of the burner, the bottom which must have been just starting to freeze onto the burner well mount (the green arrow).

The blue and the orange arrows show the two burner rings that fit into the burner mount. In my case, the blue arrow upper mount ring was broken free but the bottom orange arrow part of the old burner was extremely rust frozen to the lower mount.

As I was prying up, the top part was coming out but the bottom was not moving so I was actually stretching the burner, pulling it apart. When stretched enough, the vent hole partitions began to snap (red arrow and red circles). After the first one snapped, I knew it was a hopeless attempt to save the burner so just cut it out at that point.

Once I got the top off or out, I had to use needle nose pliers to grab whatever small metal part I could of the burner bottom and twist the pliers to twist the metal out by tearing it, much like opening an old time coffee can (I think one has to be over 50 to remember those). It took a good half hour before the bottom broke loose and came out in the large chunk shown below, the last picture.

Had to use 150 grit sandpaper and a dremel to clean the rust that was left off of the burner well sides. There is no way that old burner was ever going to come out in one piece.

On the good side, with the burner removed, it gives me a chance clean out the area below the burner and the air tubes.

The first image below is the new burner. The following images are the burner well showing the rust broken free on the top mounting ring but still solidly in place in the lower mount. It also shows the crud in the air passage areas and one of the vent tubes. The last picture is the burner pieces as removed. That small round piece is the last and largest piece of the burner to come out of the lower mount.

It cost me a lot more in time and money to continue but in the end, the lantern will once again work, 103 years after being manufactured.