Chevy Corvair or Vega

[KeithB]

My 1993 STS w/Northstar had a 4.6L (280 cubic inches) V8 engine that put out well over 300 horsepower.  I retired it at almost 200K miles a few years ago.  The 2007 CTS that replaced it has a 2.8L (170 cu. in.) V6 that puts out 210 horsepower.  When I was learning about automobile engines in the 60s and 70s, any engine that put out 1 HP per cubic inch of displacement was essentially a marvel of workmanship and tuning.   Today, it's commonplace.

[AE_Collector]

The 70's cars were such trouble in so many ways, I'm figuring it was the start of emission controls that hit the car makers squarely in the nose and they were slow to adapt. 

And lets not forget the regulated "cow catchers" (5 mile per hour crash bumpers) in 1974 wasn't it?

What's interesting is how durable cars can be now. 

And how safe they have become compared to the old cars. Nowhere near the carnage on the roads these days.

Terry

[Dennis Markham]

Bill, I think you're right about the dark days for Detroit.  In 1983 I decided we decided to buy a new car and chose the Mustang.  We still had no children at the time.  They had just changed the body style and were popular.  We waited over three months for it to arrive after placing our order.  The car was bad news.  It ran just fine, but there were some issues.  I was hand washing it just after we took possession and as I made my way around the car something didn't seem right.  I looked at the driver's side, then the passenger side.  During assembly the two sides of the assembly line were not on the same page.  They had finished the driver's side with different trim than the passenger side.  I'd never seen that before.  Of course the dealership took care of that.  Then one of the first times I drove it in the rain the radio began to squeal.  I was driving on the freeway wondering what caused this high pitched squeal.  I reached up under the dash and discovered water was leaking at the bottom of the windshield so bad that the top of the radio, inside the dash board was covered with water.  It was a brand new car.  For the next 6 months I was without my radio/cassette player because of the issues with that one.  Rather than give me a new one they sent it out for repair.  So I drove around with a hole in my dash board where the radio should go.  I sold the car after 18 months.    My younger brother had just bought a new Honda Accord.  I drove it, saw all the standard options it had and immediately bought one.  Buying a Honda is not a popular thing to do in Detroit.  But I couldn't afford to waste more money on a "junker".  I'm still driving my third Honda Accord--a 1992 with 205,000+ miles on it.

Perhaps quality has gone full circle, but those issues with the late 70's early 80's cars from Detroit caused a lot of people to jump over to the "foreign" auto makers.  

[AE_Collector]

What year was your Accord, Dennis? We bought a brand new 1984 Accord with all the bells and whistles and retired it in 2006. 22 years with only approaching 150,000 miles (240,000 KM actually in Canada) and virtually nothing but regular maintenance done to it.

Meanwhile my Honda Odyssey van has 110K miles and is 12 years old with nothing but regular maintenance. We replaced the Accord with an Accura EL which was only available in Canada. It is Honda Civic SI with even more bells and whistles on it.

I do miss my GM days but I appreciate the reliability of the Honda's. Of course my Honda's and the Accura are built in Alliston Ontario anyway.

Sure like the looks of that new Camaro though.....

Terry

[Dennis Markham]

Terry, our first Accord was a 1985.  Upgraded to a 1988 and then got this 1992.  It's time to retire it though.  I taught both of my sons to drive in this car.  There are war wounds.

The Accords were made in Ohio here in the USA.  I think they still are made there.

[Wallphone]

KeithB was talking about HP per cubic inch. I used to have a classic car book (until I loaned it to someone) that listed the engines in the old cars. I remember that the list had only two engines that had more HP than cubic inches. One was a 2XX cubic inch motor in a Corvair and the other was a 426 Hemi with 429 HP. But then again the car makers back then were known to under rate the motors on the Muscle cars so that the owner wouldn't get taken to the cleaners with insurance premiums.
Dougpav

[JorgeAmely]

Dennis:

Isn't driving an import in Detroit like walking with a target on your back?  

My most reliable car has been a 1980 Volvo 2.5 liter engine stick. I tried to retire it with 300k+ miles until I gave it to a friend from Arizona. He drove it to Tucson and now is a daily driver for his son to go to college. I did the clutch at 200k. Still original engine and passes smog here in California. In 1983 I drove it to Florida, New York and back. Still runs like day one.

Thinking they were all reliable prompted me to buy a 1995 model, but by the time it had 200k miles it was using a quart of oil every three gas tanks. That was the end of an era for Volvo.

[AE_Collector]

One was a 2XX cubic inch motor in a Corvair and the other was a 426 Hemi with 429 HP. But then again the car makers back then were known to under rate the motors on the Muscle cars so that the owner wouldn't get taken to the cleaners with insurance premiums.
Dougpav

I think some of those late 60's Mustang Cobrajet 427, 428 & 429 CI engines were in the 1 to 1 ratio as well. And as you say Doug, probably intentionally under rated. And speaking of not being able to get at the plugs!

[AE_Collector]

Terry, our first Accord was a 1985.  Upgraded to a 1988 and then got this 1992.  It's time to retire it though.  I taught both of my sons to drive in this car.  There are war wounds.

The Accords were made in Ohio here in the USA.  I think they still are made there.

Our 84 Accord was made in Japan where as the US Accords were being manufactured in the USA at the time.

In the summer of 1983 my wife and I went on a 3 month College Student tour of Europe and met lots of new friends from all around the USA. We came home and bought the 1984 Accord so in the summer of 84 we took a road trip to visit a bunch of our new friends. We started in Vancouver and circled the USA going into eastern Canada as well.

We put 15,500 miles on the Accord in 10 weeks. First time I ever ran out the 1 year / 12,000 mile warranty on a car before the year ran out.

Unfortunately the car was broken into in DC and the dealer hadn't seen the color of window tint on the Accord we had since the Japanese ones were a charcoal colored tint where as the US Accords were tinted blue. So we wound up with a blue tinted quarter window and had to have it replaced again once we got back home.

Terry

[Shovelhead]

Are you sure it was a 305? I thought the 305 was designed more in the 80's. Pretty sure they used a 262 V8 but maybe there were other optional engines. [/quote]

Definitely was a 350. In fact, the engine block stamping code was CHY. The parts catalog listed the fender emblem under P/N 1707615, description 5.7 litre.

On the camshaft issue on V8's, GM had a run of bad camshafts from about 1975 through 1978 but would never admit to it or have a recall, just a "special policy" dependent on how loud you complained.

Dennis, I was parts manager at a Buick dealership out west in the era of your Buick police cars. Our town had two that our dealership sold, both were equipped with 350"X"
code engines which was a Buick V-8. A so-so performer, handled like a regular passenger car, poorly IMO. I drove one one afternoon for a transmission problem along with one of the local cops as there was a specific problem he had with it. I had to drive it a couple of times, a wide open throttle issue. When I ran it hard, he activated the emergency equipment, the first time I drove anything with lights and siren. That soon changed as I volunteered with the local fire department soon after.


The next time around they got progressive though. They ordered two Plymouth Volares with slant 6 engines, to save on fuel bills. They lasted only a year......

[Kenny C]

Aunt lived in Pontiac from 1949-1960 they moved up there with a 49' buick and in 1956 they bought a brand new 1956 Bel-Air they kept it for a year and then my uncle saw a truck he liked traded the Bel air for it and then bought my aunt a 51 NASH  she said she would have still of had that car today if he didnt get her that  and i quote"Upside down bathtub on wheels"

[McHeath]

We have an Accord as well, a 2008 model.  It has a 146 cubic inch 4 cylinder engine and puts out 190 horsepower, which would have been a marvel of the ages once upon a time but is now no big deal.  The 95' civic has 91 cubic inches of displacement and 125 horsepower, which also would have made it a Really Big Deal had this been in 1969. 

The Accord is a stick shift, which is pretty rare these days.  We were very happy to find one as we're quite fond of manual trannys.  In all my life I've only briefly owned auto transmission cars, probably no more than 2 years out of 28 years of driving.  I read recently that only around 7% of US new cars come with sticks, while in Europe it's something like 80%.  And ironically the only transmissions that have ever given me trouble were the autos, I've never even had a clutch go bad on my sticks. 

And speaking of how much safer modern cars are, we witnessed a massive crash on the freeway a few months ago.  Happened right in front of us, a new BMW 5 series rear ended a brand new Civic hybrid at 75 mph. The Civic slammed on his brakes in the fast lane as a car cut in front of him, the BMW plowed right into the back of the Civic.  Both cars went flying out of control and ended up on opposite sides of the road, the Civic was a total wreak after seriously spinning into the barrier, while the BMW mostly.  Both drivers got right out of their cars and walked away without a scratch.  Amazing. 

[Shovelhead]

I owned a 1977 Monza with the 5.0 Litre (305 cubic inch) V8.  For all that displacement, the poor beast barely made 135 to 150 horsepower.

What color was your Monza, Keith? I saw the white one with black trim and really wanted it but had my new 1974 Vega already and had just finished putting the 350 into it.

Terry

It was red with a white vinyl half-roof.  Let's not leave out that other chemical engineering of the late 70s, where the vinyl used for the dash and center consoles rapidly discolored, apparently because it was somewhat porous and unstable.  It was impossible to keep one looking decent, even using ArmorAll vinyl cleaner and protectors. 

Or my brand new 1976 Monza 2+2 that I took out west about two months after purchasing it. Within two days in New Mexico the dash pad had split in two places from the sun and heat. I got back home, went to work and viola, warranty claim!