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Auction (30 Cancelled: Listing Terminated) - Red GPO telephone

Started by bingster, May 20, 2009, 10:14:21 PM

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bingster

What a beauty we have for this auction--It's a stunning red GPO telephone.  The auction is sitting at a very low price at the moment, but you can be sure the price will rise dramatically as the days go by.

What do we think this one will bring?  Get your guesses in before the auction's final day, and you could be the winner of this week's contest!




S C O R E B O A R D
$85 - contraste
$135 - Tonyrotary
$150 - AtomicEraTom
$200 - mienaichizu
$225 - bingster
$239 - Dan2
$285 - Dan/Panther
$300 - HobieSport
$365 - Bill Cahill
$410 - Stephen Furley
$450 - benhutcherson
$500 - McHeath

<edit> Auction was ended early so no winner here at least
= DARRIN =



HobieSport

#1
Funny, Contraste and I were just discussing GPO 232s a little on another thread. These phones are new to little ol' me, even though they are British classics:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.0

Pity about the cracks, but then, red sells, (and I'm not sure, but I think these phones may require a separate ringer/subset)

Anyway...I'll guess $300.

contraste


Stephen Furley

#3
Quote from: bingster on May 20, 2009, 10:14:21 PM
What a beauty we have for this auction.  It's a stunning red bakelite GPO telephone, which looks to my untrained eye to be a 232.

The seller claims that it's a 164, which is an older model; I'm not sure what the difference is, they look the same.  The 164 was the first of what is generally known as the 200 type, i.e. the pyramid-shaped ones.  I think the 164 was introduced around 1929.  I didn't know they had been made in red; either it's very rare, or it's not actually a 164

Quote from: HobieSport on May 20, 2009, 11:14:08 PM
Funny, Contraste and I were just discussing GPO 232s a little on another thread. These phones are new to little ol' me, even though they are British classics:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.0

Pity about the cracks, but then, red sells, (and I'm not sure, but I think these phones may require a separate ringer/subset)


The cracks were probably there from new.  Because Bakelite is naturally dark brown in colour the ivory, red and green ones had to be made from something else; the ivory ones were Urea Formaldehyde  (basically Aerolite wood glue), which was a difficult material to work with; it would often crack or distort on cooling.  I've only ever seen a handful of non-black 'phones of this era, but almost all had some cracking.

You are correct, the 200 type do not contain a ringer, though some are sold today with a modern miniature one fitted internally.  They were designed to be used with a separate bellset which could either be wall mounted, or mounted under the 'phone by means of some strange double-threaded screws.  This was a rather clumsy arrangement, and so the 300 series was introduced with an internal bell.  The 200 series remained available, and was used more for domestic installations, with the 300 being more for business use, though both types were used in both places.  Think of the 200 series as being the British version of the 202.

bingster

That'll teach me to read the listings more carefully.  One of the photos shows the handset bears a well-worn, but readable "164."
= DARRIN =



contraste

The red phone in question comes from the town I was born in - Nottingham.
It's probably older than me if it's a 164 and it's in better condition.

contraste

Here is a listing on ebay UK for a type 232 phone:


http://tiny.cc/MkfNV

It contains a photo of the handset markings which are similar (and more clearly defined) than those on the red phone.

It would seem that these markings are not a definitive way of identifying the model of the phone.

Perhaps the numbers 56/2 on the base of the red phone are a date stamp.

I think the red phone in our competition is a GPO type 232.



contraste

Quote from: Stephen Furley on May 21, 2009, 04:03:56 AM
Quote from: bingster on May 20, 2009, 10:14:21 PM
What a beauty we have for this auction.  It's a stunning red bakelite GPO telephone, which looks to my untrained eye to be a 232.

The seller claims that it's a 164, which is an older model; I'm not sure what the difference is, they look the same.  The 164 was the first of what is generally known as the 200 type, i.e. the pyramid-shaped ones.  I think the 164 was introduced around 1929.  I didn't know they had been made in red; either it's very rare, or it's not actually a 164

Quote from: HobieSport on May 20, 2009, 11:14:08 PM
Funny, Contraste and I were just discussing GPO 232s a little on another thread. These phones are new to little ol' me, even though they are British classics:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.0

Pity about the cracks, but then, red sells, (and I'm not sure, but I think these phones may require a separate ringer/subset)


The cracks were probably there from new.  Because Bakelite is naturally dark brown in colour the ivory, red and green ones had to be made from something else; the ivory ones were Urea Formaldehyde  (basically Aerolite wood glue), which was a difficult material to work with; it would often crack or distort on cooling.  I've only ever seen a handful of non-black 'phones of this era, but almost all had some cracking.

You are correct, the 200 type do not contain a ringer, though some are sold today with a modern miniature one fitted internally.  They were designed to be used with a separate bellset which could either be wall mounted, or mounted under the 'phone by means of some strange double-threaded screws.  This was a rather clumsy arrangement, and so the 300 series was introduced with an internal bell.  The 200 series remained available, and was used more for domestic installations, with the 300 being more for business use, though both types were used in both places.  Think of the 200 series as being the British version of the 102.

So what's it worth Stephen?

Tonyrotary


Bill Cahill

Wow! I'd say 365.00 for that beuty!!!!
Bill Cahill

"My friends used to keep saying I had batts in my belfry. No. I'm just hearing bells....."

Stephen Furley

#10
I got that wrong, the older model is the 162, not the 164.

Details of the 162 here:
http://www.britishtelephones.com/t162.htm

and of the 232 here:
http://www.britishtelephones.com/t232.htm


The 164 isn't a telephone at all, it's a handset, which was used with both 200 and 300 series telephones:
http://www.britishtelephones.com/t164.htm

So this auction is for a 162 or 232 telephone, with a 164 handset.

If the '56' is a  date of manufacture then it's a 232, and a late one; I think they stopped making them in about '57 or '58.  If it's a 162 then it would be much earlier.  I'm leaning towards it being a 232, with a 164 handset.

Both models can be seen here:
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/phones_pre1960.htm
There isn't a lot of difference to be seen between them; both models can be seen with, and without, drawers.  The 162 seems to use a No. 25 Bellset, whereas the 232 seems to use a No. 26 one.  The difference between these seems to be that the No.25 contains the induction coil, whereas the No.26 does not, so presumably the 162 did not have one internally, as was also the case with the 150 candlestick of similar vintage.

The insides of both bellsets can be seen here:
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/bells.htm#Bell25

Quote from: contraste on May 21, 2009, 06:56:23 AM
So what's it worth Stephen?

Goodness knows.  If it's a 232 then a red one is very rare, I would say at least 99% of these were black.  Ivory was the next most common, then red, then green.  If it's a 162, then it's even more rare, and it's in good condition.  On the other hand, there's no bellset, it's on the American Ebay site, so potential British bidders may not see it, and it's got a horrible modern line cord.  If it had the bellset, correct cords and the original block terminal also in red, then I'd say about 350 pounds.  As it is, 260; that converts to $410 according to xe.com.

I've entered three of these so far, and been surprisingly close twice (only by luck).  I'll probably be way out this time.

Stephen Furley

Quote from: contraste on May 21, 2009, 06:15:29 AM
The red phone in question comes from the town I was born in - Nottingham.
It's probably older than me if it's a 164 and it's in better condition.

I was in Nottingham on Tuesday, at about 2:30 a.m!  I'd been to one of Rob Foxon's railway film shows at Sheffield Library Theatre, and I was on the 01:20 overnight coach back to London, arriving at 06:20.  Until recently it used to depart at 01:45, so I have a long wait after the show finishes at about 22:30.  The coach is almost full when it arrives at Sheffield, then picks up a few more at Chesterfield, Mansfield and Nottingham.  It's always completely full then to Golders Green.

Stephen Furley

Well, somebody else is selling one of the parts that you'd need to make that red 'phone complete:

http://tinyurl.com/p8dwaw

Note the price; it seems too high to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one of these fetch fifty pounds;  GPO red 'Bakelite' is rare.

AET

150 schekles, or whatever kidna currency we're using these days.
- Tom

Dan

$239  I know nothing about these phones
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright