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Western Electric 102, I Think

Started by Logan1, May 23, 2014, 09:00:33 PM

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Logan1

I have what I think is a Western Electric 102 because It only has three wires going to the wall, a red, green, yellow. I want to hook up a subset to it , I have a W/E 634A and a W/E  302 base, Witch one would be the easiest to hook up. I see so many different ways to hook up different subsets it is confusing.
Worked at Western Electric in Plymouth Mich

mentalstampede

#1
Nice phone.  The 634 is probably the better choice, but either one will work.  The diagrams you need are here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0

EDIT: For sidetone (102 type ) hookup, you should be able to simply omit the black wire shown in the diagrams.  If you want to wire it up anti-sidetone (202), you will need to use a four conductor cord. Either way, you will be using the diagram for the 101A ind. coil, since the 302 base and 634a are essentially identical electrically.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

poplar1

#2
Since both the 634A and the 302 base are anti-sidetone, they are designed for 4 wires from a 202, 211, 151AL, etc.

Actually, just leaving off the black wire is not the way to do it. The correct way to connect a sidetone telephone to an anti-sidetone subset such as 634A or 684A is shown here.

WR-C63.373

No changes to the wiring of the 102 are needed.

Connect Yellow from 102 to GN on the 101A induction coil in the subset
Connect Red  from 102 to L2/Y on the 101A.
Connect Green from 102 to BK terminal  in the subset (or spare GND terminal in a 302 base), (This is the same terminal that has the black condenser wire.)


However, it is necessary to make the following changes in the 302 base (or 634 or 684 subset):

Move red capacitor wire  from C to L1
Move ringer wire and line wire from L1 to C

Connect incoming line to L2Y and C

When used this way, the circuit is sidetone. This allows you to connect multiple phones to the same subset.

(Diagram is actually for a 51AL but the connection between the phone and the subset are the same.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

mentalstampede

Quote from: poplar1 on May 23, 2014, 09:41:30 PM
Actually, just leaving off the black wire is not the way to do it. The correct way to connect a sidetone telephone to an anti-sidetone subset such as 634A or 684A is shown here.

Oops. Thanks for the correction, poplar1.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." --Robert Heinlein

poplar1

With a 102, even in 1943 it's more likely that they would have just changed the mounting cord from 3 conductors to 4, making it a 202, since this was an easy thing to do.

Sidetone desk stand telephones (candlesticks), on the other hand, can not be converted to anti-sidetone just by changing the 3-conductor cord to 4-conductor. That's because the hookswitch doesn't have enough contact springs. In that case, it's easier to use the anti-sidetone subset as if it were sidetone, as shown in the diagram, if that's all that is available, since no changes to the phone are necessary.

This workaround--for using a sidetone phone with an anti-sidetone subset--was no doubt created because of the wartime shortages of equipment.  Because so many of the original sidetone subsets have been updated to anti-sidetone (as this 534A converted to a 634A), scrapped, or left on walls, we are once again faced with a shortage of sidetone subsets to use with sidetone phones that we still find. So this diagram, though shown for a desk stand and a 634A or 684A, can also be used with 102s, 20ALs, and others connected to either 302 bases or anti-sidetone subsets.

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

#5
This was discussed extensively also in this thread: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8785.msg117918#msg117918


Here is a copy of the circuit diagram of from that thread:


Again, the diagram is for a desk stand, but it is identical in the interconnection for a desk set.

PS: Please note: the line designations, tip and ring, are swapped in this diagram for some erroneous reason. Doesn't effect anything anymore today, though.

Logan1

Here is what I have, I hooked the Red from wall to L1 G to L2 on coil, and from phone I hooked Red to R Green to GN, and yellow to L2 on coil. Nothing is happening on the subset, like ringing, I get a dial tone. Here are some pictures.
Worked at Western Electric in Plymouth Mich

Logan1

I have a hard time under standing the diagrams.
Worked at Western Electric in Plymouth Mich

poplar1

#8
The black capacitor (condenser) wire should not be on L1. It goes to BK.

The ringer circuit is independent of the talk circuit. One side of the line  connects to the red ringer wire. The black ringer wire connects to the slate (gray) capacitor wire. The yellow capacitor wire connects to the other incoming line wire on L2Y. Thus the ringing capacitor is in series with the ringer.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

If you don't want to use a 4-conductor cord, then I would connect it (with furnished 3-conductor cord) as follows:

Incoming Line:
Green to L2Y
Red to C

Ringer:
Red to C
Black to K

Ringing Capacitor:
Slate (gray) to K
Yellow to L2Y

Talk Capacitor:
Red to L1
Black to BK

Phone:
No changes to the wiring of the 102 are needed.

Connect Yellow from 102 to GN on the 101A induction coil in the subset
Connect Red  from 102 to L2/Y on the 101A.
Connect Green from 102 to BK terminal  in the subset
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Logan1

I think I got it now,  Thanks for your help, you and Phonesrfun are great at what you do.  Thanks again.  Victor
Worked at Western Electric in Plymouth Mich

Logan1

One last question, My Western Electric 102 - 4H dial is missing the numbers, How would that be repaired.  Thanks  Picture.
Worked at Western Electric in Plymouth Mich

poplar1

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

#13
Quote from: Logan1 on May 24, 2014, 03:17:03 PM
One last question, My Western Electric 102 - 4H dial is missing the numbers, How would that be repaired.  Thanks  Picture.
The set has a nice brass metal finger wheel. Remove the nut you see, permits you to lift off. The wheel should clean up nicely with some soap and water, and perhaps a little metal polish which should bring back some luster in the paint.

Underneath the finger wheel you will see how to remove the number plate. There is a three prong spring retainer clip on top of the number plate. Pull it out and remove the number plate.
It appears it is a vitreous enamel coated metal type, the numbers rub off over time from those. They can be found on eBay between $10 and $20. It will be hard to find one with a date in the 1930s.
Alternately, there are plastic stick-on overlays that can be bought (e.g. OPW, IIRC), not very original but functional.

It's hard to tell, but your plate was originally a type 150B.   With digits in black, and all letters in red, probably with a Z and "OPERATOR" with the zero.   See here for all the varieties:  http://www.paul-f.com/weNumberPlates.html


poplar1

If it has the original 1936 number plate, it's a 149-type.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.