This may turn out to be interesting.
Recently a person contacted me wondering what the value was on two phones she had recently acquired because they were so unusual looking. She saw my ad for the Seattle Phone Show in Craigslist and contacted me hoping I could give her more information.
I was stumped. I even posted here, but there was not a lot of information that came from that. I believe she may have contacted Paul-F and he may be doing some research on this for her, but still there was not much information available at the time, except that they are certainly rare, even though they are made from basic parts that are very readily available except for the base cover.
These follow the general theme of the Continental series, in the paint, the colors and the features F4 handset with T1/U1 capsules, fabric colored coiled cords, #6 dials with plastic finger wheels, etc.
I wondered at the time if there was an "Imperial" version of the same thing in a plated finish. About two hours, my question was answered as I was going through the Seattle museum seeing two samples of the "Metropolitan"; one in black and one in gold plating just like the Imperial. Both GN4676's. Note from the photo that the Seattle Museum display indicates that these were actually developed in Seattle.
The base is metal, by the way, as is the "D" mount that mounts to it.
The lady is still in need of value information. If you wish to contact her, I have that information. I am going to post a link back to this posting on both the TCI and ATCA list serves.
Here are the photos:
Bill,
Is the last photo above from the Museum display? Do they have documentation that led to the 1947 date, Seattle origin and Metropolitan name?
So far, all the sets reported have had dates in 1955.
Quote from: paul-f on June 17, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
Bill,
Is the last photo above from the Museum display? Do they have documentation that led to the 1947 date, Seattle origin and Metropolitan name?
So far, all the sets reported have had dates in 1955.
I suspect the sets may have been converted in various Western Electric distributing houses including the Seattle facility.
It would also appear as if they were used in service in other parts of Pacific Telephone territory.
Does anyone know what other areas other than the West Coast they appeared in?
Bill...these are very cool sets. Are you the new owner or are they on loan? Stunning sets, looks like they have been cleaned up from your original post. Beautiful phones. The Imperial is amazing as well....thanks for the pictures....Doug
The red and green pair are for sale. As mentioned before, the lady that owns them is looking for information on their value. I don't have the phones, but she does, and I can give you her e-mail address.
I am going to contact the Seattle Museum and see if they have anything in their archives to substantiate the inormation as to their origin (Seattle?) and of the dates. The museum has a placcard on their display showing a 1947 date and Seattle as the originating area.
The 1947 date is interesting. Perhaps these were dreamt up in 1947, but all the evidence seems to point to 1955, based on component date stamps.
Bill...I would love to have these phones, but have no idea of their true value. To me, the only fair way to establish their value is to list them on eBay with a minimum that she wants for each phone ($500 would be a fair starting point). I would list them separately, but that's only me. If she wants to donate them, I will accept her donation ;D..thanks...Doug
Quote from: Phonesrfun on June 18, 2012, 11:53:48 AM
I am going to contact the Seattle Museum and see if they have anything in their archives to substantiate the inormation as to their origin (Seattle?) and of the dates. The museum has a placcard on their display showing a 1947 date and Seattle as the originating area.
Any new info on the "Metropolitan" sets?
I will send a follow-up e-mail to Don Ostrand at the Seattle Museum. Thanks for the reminder.
Bill...what happened to the red and green sets? I never saw them on eBay....thanks...Doug
It is about time I contacted the owner once again to ask her. A few weeks ago I left it with her that i would help her on any write-up she needed, but I have not heard from her.
I will do that when I get home from work this evening.
Thanks,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280966103403
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280966123376
I think I would have put the moss green one up for sale first and waited a month or two after it sold to list the pekin red. Listing both at the same time may split available money between the two phones, if you know what I mean. Selling them separately may have had both go higher amount.
Just MHO, of course.
Now, how about an auction contest on both of them?
And I would post one picture of the second phone in the first listing and say "coming next month".
Not mentioned but these are the two phones that showed up at the Seattle phone show that Bill Geurts hosted in June.
Terry
I saw these at the last phone show in Seattle. She showed up kinda late just as we were winding down. This is a good one for our guessing contest.
Yes they would have been good for an auction contest. Only 1 day and 7 hrs left though so prob not enough time left. Could go very high OR might just about be there now at $300 for the red and $2xx something for the green. Who knows!
Could keep it an informal contest.....
I guess red - $735 and green - $580
Terry
Think the red will hit 920 and the green 480
Wow! These ended last night at $989.70 for the red one & $1009.09 for the green. The red one was bid on three times more than the green one, but still caught up at the end.
Okay, I won the green one and Gilas won the red one....I can live with that!
What?....We don't get the phones? Actually looks like esteemed club member CH has won them. Congrats CH! I'm sure he will share all the details with us soon.
Terry
I am anxious to examine them closely. But, despite what the seller says I would wager that they have been re-painted since leaving Western Electric.
Chuck
Congratulations Chuck!
In any case, they appear to be in great condition and will add visual interest in terms of both shape and color.
Hopefully we'll hear more from the museum or elsewhere that will help unravel the history of these sets.
Congratulations Chuck!
I am envious.
I held both those phones in my hands and I took the covers off and looked inside both of them. If there is some drool left inside, I am sorry about that!
The seller saw my Craig's list ad for the Seattle phone show. She contacted me to find out what they might bring. I invited her to the Seattle show, and she brought them in and several of us had the opportunity to see them first hand. The thing is, nobody at the show, or anyone else could come up with any guess as to what they were worth, since there obviously are not that many out there. I even posted an introduction to them last spring. She has talked to several people and it was felt that the best way to find out what they were worth was to put them up on e-bay and see.
I have talked to several about the history of the phones, including Paul F, and that seems to be a wide open field for exploration. Maybe a subject for a future Singing Wires article.
The curator of the Seattle phone museum says that the legend is that someone from Pacific Telephone in Seattle was the one who had the original idea. Others say that the genesis of the GN4676 was from the SF Bay Area. Maybe you will have better luck in finding out more. The Seattle museum has two of these GN4676's on display. One is all black, and the other is all gold, like the gold Imperial.
I could not tell if the paint on these had been repainted or if it was original. On the underside of the large square box, the paint is not completely covered, and there is some areas of bare metal showing. However, the bare metal is not corroded, nor does it seem to have remnants of older paint. I have seen factory paint jobs like that, and so that did not convince me that the paint job is not original. Without dissecting the phone bodies entirely and doing a CSI-type forensics analysis, it was hard to tell.
What is apparent is the fact that there is little wear, all the parts are consistently dated and the phones appear to be all original and beauties.
Thank you Bill. In an email the seller did they were getting appreciated information from you.
Chuck
Gee and I thought they were inspired by the AE #2 from 1928!
Terry
<---------------
The following reply regarding the history of these telephones was posted on the TCI Listserve:
Unfortunately, these particular phones have no documentation or known history.
We purchased them at a shop in Seattle that offered no background info.
However, we have amassed a substantial amount of anecdotal and 3rd party data from phone collectors and organizations'.
The phones arrived. The first two pictures show the phone as received (same pictures as Doug posted at the beginning of this thread). The third picture shows the damage to the number plate on the green phone. Whatever damaged it also cracked the number wheel and chipped its center. The fourth picture shows the phones now. I cleaned the paint splatter off of the green phone and replaced its 150B number plate and open center finger wheel. I put number cards on both phones.
Pictures 5-12 show component shots of the green phone. The sub set cover appears to be cast, of the same type of metal used in A,B,D and H mounts. It is about 1/16" thick. The feet on the bottom of the sub set look the same as on an H mount. Note the oblong holes for mounting the sub set bottom to a wall. This suggests that the base was re-used from a normal sub set. The dial in both sets is a 5H (not 5J) with an adapter to accept the open face finger wheel. The hand set cord stay is marked 4-0, H3P, 1 55. The tag on the cord that connects the D mount to the sub set is marked D4Y, 0'-11", IV 54. Two short screws hold the D mount to the sub set cover. Two long screws hold the base of the sub set base to it cover.
The complete phone weighs 6 pounds, 2 ounces. For comparison, a metal H mount I have weighs 6 pounds, 7 ounces.
I believe Terry is correct. The basic design appears to be a copy of the AE shown in his avatar.
Chuck
Pictures 7-12.
In reviewing my last posting I see picture 3 did not post. Here it is.
Chuck
Chuck...I have never seen anything like these and I doubt I ever will. I would be thrilled with a black one. These are Rare, an overused term but it does apply here. RARE. Congrats...I am very happy for you....maybe a tad envious!! You did really well. I thought they would go higher.....Doug
They look really nice, Chuck-- a trully great find! Looking at the shape of the feet & how they are riveted to the subset baseplate, they look more like 500 types to me. Since riveted feet were used for just a short time at the beginning of 302 production, I doubt there would have been any around by '54.
Quote from: Jester on September 27, 2012, 06:55:07 PM
They look really nice, Chuck-- a trully great find! Looking at the shape of the feet & how they are riveted to the subset baseplate, they look more like 500 types to me. Since riveted feet were used for just a short time at the beginning of 302 production, I doubt there would have been any around by '54.
Nice call on the riveted feet Stephen... I agree. These are just the coolest sets...Doug
Stephen:
You are correct, they are like the early 500 feet. I was picturing them in my mind as I wrote the posting, but for some reason wrote H mount.
Chuck
Yes pretty cool Chuck. Would you say that the subset is cast pot metal then? Some of the D mounts were stamped aluminum weren't they but most cast pot metal.
Terry
Terry:
It seems to be cast pot metal.
Chuck