What is the Toughest 302 Color to Find?

[Doug Rose]

We all know the big five, but here is what I think is the toughest to find.  A Blood Red Soft plastic 302. Made for a short time in early '55, same color as the 500 set. Pictures are three of WE Blood Red colors made in 1955. Sorry old archive pictures.

Soft plastic, not thermoplastic and a matching painted handset. In my opinion the hardest color 302 to find. When is the last time you saw one for sale? I know of two other Forum Members who own one. If you have one, let's see some pictures.....Doug

[Haf]

Well,actually there are some colors I haven't even seen on the net like dark gold, statuary bronze, old brass, oxidized silver or even my favourite, Old Rose (never seen an AE40 Orchid either). But I'm for sure no expert for WE 302's.

[unbeldi]

We all know the big five, but here is what I think is the toughest to find.  A Blood Red Soft plastic 302. Made for a short time in early '55, same color as the 500 set. Pictures are three of WE Blood Red colors made in 1955. Sorry old archive pictures.

Soft plastic, not thermoplastic and a matching painted handset. In my opinion the hardest color 302 to find. When is the last time you saw one for sale? I know of two other Forum Members who own one. If you have one, let's see some pictures.....Doug

Soft plastic, not thermoplastic ?  This requires some clarification: All colored plastics that WE used were thermoplastic, from the Tenite 302s, to the Tenite butyrates of the early 500s, to the ABS plastics of the later 500s, starting in about 1959.

There maybe real evidence in a recently posted BLR article on TCI that at least some of the black 500 set housing used a thermosetting phenol resin. In the 1970s, WE emphasized recycling of housings and found that they had to separate black housings because the recycled materials contained particles of thermosetting plastics that didn't melt and therefore clogged injection nozzles.

There doesn't seem to be any formal reliable source, such as a BSP, that documents standard issue plastic 302 housings in 500-series colors. It probably was not a standard practice for any length of time. The BSPs for colored station sets dated 1953-1955 formally specify the available features. Perhaps some of the operating companies made different choices.  A version of BSP 30.011 does specify that custom colors may be produced and color samples should be supplied by customers.
Colored 302 set production was apparently seized by end of 1954, so it may be possible that WE experimented with other polymers using the 302-type molds. But where is this documented?

If the red 302 set shown was a standard issue by WE, they would probably have continued with the practice of using grove-less F1 Bakelite handsets for colored sets. Sharp edges such as presented by the groves are susceptible to paint chipping and abrasion wear. The red set shown has groves on the handset.
However, WE indeed issued Continental and Imperial 202s with groved handsets.

One indeed would assume that custom colored sets would be the hardest to find.

[Doug Rose]

Well,actually there are some colors I haven't even seen on the net like dark gold, statuary bronze, old brass, oxidized silver or even my favourite, Old Rose (never seen an AE40 Orchid either). But I'm for sure no expert for WE 302's.

Haf...thanks for the advertisement, it printed out great. The four on the right are painted metal sets. Very hard to find in displayable condition.....Doug

[Doug Rose]

Karl...there are no BSPs on the soft plastic 302s. I have had a Green and a Ivory, both painted handsets, both soft plastic. Looked identical to the all thermoplastic set. Side by side there were very similar. There are rumors of a Blue, but I have never seen one.

The red is the prize as it is the same color as the 500 set. These were not custom colors, but a short run of 302s with a painted handset. They were painted grooved black handsets. I know you are skeptical, but these are real. There are two other members of the Forum who might jump in with their opinions. As for a BSP, been through it before on both Lists and no one could come up with anything.

Take a good look at it and tell me you do not think it is real.....Doug

[Jon Kolger]

I also have a soft-plastic red phone like the one in Doug's photos.  I have a green and an ivory as well, and I seem to remember a beige one also.  I don't have photos right now, as they are all packed away in my storage unit.  But they are for real.  I found my first one about 30 years ago in Indianapolis, back when I lived in Indiana.  Lots of strange WE phones showed up in Indy, probably because of the huge Western Electric plant there.

[paul-f]

Well,actually there are some colors I haven't even seen on the net like dark gold, statuary bronze, old brass, oxidized silver or even my favourite, Old Rose (never seen an AE40 Orchid either). But I'm for sure no expert for WE 302's.

Good point, Haf.

I posted some photos I've collected of two of the metal painted sets here:

   http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9937.0

I believe Dennis has photos of the other two.

[Dennis Markham]

I know of two other Forum Members who own one. If you have one, let's see some pictures.....Doug

Here are some photos of the one I have.  I also have one in Green.

[Dennis Markham]

I posted some photos I've collected of two of the metal painted sets here:

  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9937.0

I believe Dennis has photos of the other two.

Paul, these may be the photos you are referencing?  At the time of the posting (below) these phones were owned by Mark Scola.  I believe he still has the 302's.

http://tinyurl.com/yddvc5f

Taken from a post on the metal color sets back in 2010:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1986.0

[unbeldi]

Karl...there are no BSPs on the soft plastic 302s. I have had a Green and a Ivory, both painted handsets, both soft plastic. Looked identical to the all thermoplastic set. Side by side there were very similar. There are rumors of a Blue, but I have never seen one.

The red is the prize as it is the same color as the 500 set. These were not custom colors, but a short run of 302s with a painted handset. They were painted grooved black handsets. I know you are skeptical, but these are real. There are two other members of the Forum who might jump in with their opinions. As for a BSP, been through it before on both Lists and no one could come up with anything.

Take a good look at it and tell me you do not think it is real.....Doug

Did you identify the plastic correctly?

For me, looking at a single picture is insufficient to make any judgement as to the materials used. Dennis' pictures reveal more though.  If I recall an old post, your set didn't come with this handset originally.

Even a -53 color on a 302 would be a custom color. If one of the operating companies decided they wanted a batch of red -53 phones for Valentine's Day, they could have placed that order. Even makes sense for *early* 1955.  It would not be surprising for them to end up in a small collector group of a few hundred. I have two peking red 302s, and they have almost identical component dates, what are the odds of that? Even the dials have the same date, although the dials are two years older than the rest of the phone. Clearly these two were made in the same batch, they used the same parts bin of 1952 dials.

The question is not whether they are 'real'. I think the evidence shows that they were not 'standard', that they were probably an experiment, a favor done to employees, or similar. Unlikely a run, but more likely a batch.  It is probably not coincidental that these were found around Indy, or other WE plants. I recall a story somewhere, that told how someone made special color telephones for special occasions or people--I seem to recall talk of a yellow 302 made in NJ. Some workers in the plants had the opportunity to make special phones at times.

The pictures by Dennis confirm this. The component dates of his phone are all over the map. Clearly this was not a 'new' phone made by way of order. It was a refurb, or parts pulled from refurb bins, and someone made a new housing for it.

This is perhaps also the reason for the handsets having groves. A refurbished phone's hand set was reused, like the Continental line. By the mid 50s, paint technology had improved so that the brown Bakelite was no longer mandatory for good paint adhesion.

Do any of the sets in collectors' possession have matching component dates with their housings?

The metallic colors are well documented, yet they seem to be even rarer than the colored plastic units. Perhaps the rarity arises because they were discarded or stripped more frequently, because the paint deteriorated much faster from oxidation and other decay.

[Dennis Markham]

 If I recall an old post, your set didn't come with this handset originally.

No, it was Doug's set that originally had a different handset.

[Doug Rose]

 If I recall an old post, your set didn't come with this handset originally.

No, it was Doug's set that originally had a different handset.

Dennis....that is correct. Mine had a brown WE handset when I found it. I posted it on the ATCA List and Mark Scola sent me the proper handset. Mark is a great guy and this started a wonderful friendship between us that has lasted a long time. You can't do any better than Mark....Doug

[Doug Rose]

Stephen.....next

[Doug Rose]

thanks for all who replied. Great color and a toughie. What go me thinking about it is the $600 red thermo on eBay now. It has a blood red curly cord on it....Doug 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400538944701

[Jon Kolger]

It almost looks like a Rose coiled cord on a red phone.  The line cord looks correct, the coiled cord...not so much.