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The Leichs have arrived.

Started by Stephen Furley, September 05, 2011, 05:52:38 PM

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Stephen Furley

After almost a month they're finally in my hands.  No damage in transit.

To deal with the 'claw' one first, it's basically an older, Bakelite version of the 105.  The Bakelite is undamaged, and seems to be of good quality, but it's somewhat dirty and certainly needs a good polish.  Both telephones are, unsurprisingly, fitted with Automatic Electric dials; this one is sticking somewhat.  The dial card is an undersized paper one stuck on.  It's printed in green with some sort of circular logo at the top, but I can't read it, the light in my room is not very bright, and I need new glasses.  The area code is 608, and the number 786-3074, can somebody tell me where this one was from?

The handset also needs a polish; both caps unscrew, and the elements seem to be the same as those used in the WE F1.  The handset cord is coiled, very thick, and dirty.  I thought at first it was rubber, but now I'm not so sure, it feels more like plastic, but Looks original; were plastic cords available when this was made?  A few coils at one end are distorted, but can probably be fixed.  There was a short length of what I thought was very stiff plastic line cord attached, but when I removed it it turned out to be solid core cable rather than cord, though rather thicker than modern telephone cable.  This is slightly odd; cable directly attached to the 'phone suggests wall mounting, but the dial is positioned for use as a desk set.

Inside there doesn't seem to be anything to give cause for concern.  There's even a small folded piece of paper with a circuit diagram tucked inside still in place.  According to this, the dial version is a model 615.

Now for the 'pyramid' one.  The first thing which struck me about this was its small size.  I think it's a 90, but I'm not certain.  It's quite similar in shape to the GPO 162 and 232, but the base is somewhat squarer, not as wide as the 232. It's the version with the bell mounted in an extension of the base underneath, but is much neater than the GPO version when the 'phone is mounted on top of the bellset, smaller and with no messy external cord linking the two.  The cradle rest is similar in style to that on the 232,  and even more like the original style on the 162.  Due to it's shape this would be very fragile if made from Bakelite; on the 232 it is thermoplastic, while Leich opted for metal.

Dial and handset are the same as on the other model, but this dial runs freely.  There was a WE type dial card, which fell out because it's too small.  Most of it has turned quite dark brown, but there are two lighter strips which look like some sort of tape label was attached to it at one time.  There is a small piece of Bakelite missing in one bottom rear corner; this was pointed out by the seller and I think can be repaired.  It doesn't show that badly because it's where the shell overlaps the base, so there's more Bakelite underneath it.  Some glue needs cleaning off as well.  There's a very small chip out of the handset, but it's difficult to see; I only found it by feel.

The handset cord is coiled plastic, slightly thinner than on the 615, similar to that on an early '60s 500.  Line cord is a nasty 'silver satin' type modern modular one, dirty, distorted and with a broken clip on the plug.  I'll leave it on for now so I can test the set tomorrow, but it will be going very soon.  There is a single small hole in the back of the shell through which both cords enter; it wouldn't take anything much thicker than the present cords.  I'm not sure if even a thin round 500 type line cord would fit, and a cloth one certainly couldn't.  Does anybody know the correct type of line cord for these sets?

Again, HA-1 and F-1 fitted.  something seems to have been spilled inside the transmitter housing, it's dirty, and there's a bit of corrosion.  A small piece is missing from the transmitter cover, but this cannot be seen when the retaining ring is in place.

Inside is remarkable; only the ringer is mounted in the base; everything else is inside the shell.  Even the larger 232 put the capacitor in the bellset.  It's a very tight fit on this Leich.  I'm still, a bit puzzled by the single , small, cord hole.

Both need some work doing on them, but nothing too serious.  Photos to follow soon.

GG



Area code 608 is Wisconsin, and the 786 exchange is in the town of West Salem.  ("Salem" is apparently a common city name in the US, found in many states including in the Northeast and Southeast as well as the Midwest.)

Sticky AE dials are easy to fix; they are very easy to disassemble and clean, IMHO quite a bit easier than WE or GPO dials.  Though, a) keep track of the correct "notch" that the dial spring was hooked into on the circular plate at the bottom of the spring, and b) be sure to position the impulse cam on the back of the dial properly when re-installing the large drive gear in the front of the dial.   For removing and replacing the number card retainer rings, do not try to pry them, look up the drawings that are around here someplace, or ask and everyone here will tell you about their favorite tool for slipping between the clear celluloid and the retainer ring (mine is the slim tip of the file blade on a Swiss Army knife:-)

Someone around here, might have been you, remarked that the first time they saw a WE 302, they thought it was small compared to their familiar GPO 332s.  Same as the comparison between the Leich and the 232s.   

Yes, a small cord entry hole is a bit of a mystery.  I wonder if there isn't another cord entry somewhere on that phone but camouflaged in some way?  It was certainly made during the era of larger diameter cords, and used by independent telcos that would have wanted to use stock on hand for repairs & replacements, cloth cords included. 

Stephen Furley

#2
Quote from: GG on September 06, 2011, 05:25:25 AM


Area code 608 is Wisconsin, and the 786 exchange is in the town of West Salem.  ("Salem" is apparently a common city name in the US, found in many states including in the Northeast and Southeast as well as the Midwest.)

Sticky AE dials are easy to fix; they are very easy to disassemble and clean, IMHO quite a bit easier than WE or GPO dials.  Though, a) keep track of the correct "notch" that the dial spring was hooked into on the circular plate at the bottom of the spring, and b) be sure to position the impulse cam on the back of the dial properly when re-installing the large drive gear in the front of the dial.   For removing and replacing the number card retainer rings, do not try to pry them, look up the drawings that are around here someplace, or ask and everyone here will tell you about their favorite tool for slipping between the clear celluloid and the retainer ring (mine is the slim tip of the file blade on a Swiss Army knife:-)

Someone around here, might have been you, remarked that the first time they saw a WE 302, they thought it was small compared to their familiar GPO 332s.  Same as the comparison between the Leich and the 232s.  

Yes, a small cord entry hole is a bit of a mystery.  I wonder if there isn't another cord entry somewhere on that phone but camouflaged in some way?  It was certainly made during the era of larger diameter cords, and used by independent telcos that would have wanted to use stock on hand for repairs & replacements, cloth cords included.  

Yes, I've come across several Salems; I wonder if it's derived from shalom?

The card holder is one thing which I don't like about the AE dials; it's easy to scratch or bend the plastic cover disk when moving the locking tab.  On both of these  dials the metal backing plate was bent and I had to straighten it out.

Yes, it was me who commented on the size.  I like the 232 on its own, but it really is a huge great lump when mounted on the bellset, and then there's the external cord, which just looks a mess.  Leich really did do very well to get dial, hookswitch, terminal strip, induction coil and capacitor all inside that body.

I've had a good look, and I can't find any other cord entry.  There is a soft plastic grommet in the hole, but even with that removed you'd not get two cloth cords through.

I've made a couple of calls with it this morning; one of them an external one over SIP trunks!  The 90 rings on somewhat less than 75V, 25 Hz. but I haven't tried the 615 yet.

The 615 dial has now jammed, and I don't want to try to move it before examining it properly.  I thought it might free up with a bit of exercise, but it suddenly just stopped turning.  There were no nasty noises, so I don't think it's anything serious.  There is a clean crack in the Bakelite, but nothing which can't be fixed easily.  The paper label dial 'card' was stuck onto a very dirty acetate disk, under which was a proper dial card, so I've left that one in place with a new acetate cover disk, and put the paper label one to one side for now. The paper one says 'LA CROSSE PUBLIC SERVICE TELEPHONE CORP'

I've just taken some pictures; will try to get them up tonight.

LarryInMichigan

The name "Salem" certainly comes from a Biblical reference and is the English conversion of "shalom".  LaCrosse is a city in Wisconsin on the Mississippi river.

The Leich pyramid phones have only one hole in the rear for both line and handset cords.  Mine (the one in my profile picture) has black cloth cords which fit together a bit snugly through the hole.  I do not think that there should be a grommet.

About 99.9% of these phones have cracks in the bakelite a bit below the cradle.  The cradle is held to the shell with two screws.  Tightening the screws too tightly or pulling the phone by the cradle too harshly will cause cracking.

Larry

Stephen Furley

#4
Looks like I'm lucky; mine doesn't have any cracks there.  The small piece missing from one of the back corners can be seen in one of the pictures.

I tried connecting the 615 to an engineer's battery set with a bit of jumper wire.  The speech circuit works, but it doesn't ring.  I tried disconnecting one side of the ringer and connecting a hand magneto directly to it; still no ring.  Whether faulty, or just for wrong frequency, I don't know; I'll test the ringer windings later.

Apart from a bit of paint missing from the cradle the 90 looks fairly respectable.  I'm not sure if the 'numbers' dial card which I've fitted is appropriate, but it looks better than nothing for now.  The 615 looks pretty dull at the moment; it needs a good polish.

LarryInMichigan

The ringer definitely does not look like a frequency ringer.  Perhaps on the of the spade terminals is not making proper contact with the wire.  Check the conductivity between the spade connector and the post on the ringer for each wire.

Since the phone has only one condenser, it must be used for both the speech and ringer circuits, so the hook switch must handle the connection/disconnection between the circuits.  My phone does not have a ringer, and I do not know how everything should be wired.

Larry

Stephen Furley

Quote from: LarryInMichigan on September 06, 2011, 12:12:25 PM
The ringer definitely does not look like a frequency ringer.  Perhaps on the of the spade terminals is not making proper contact with the wire.  Check the conductivity between the spade connector and the post on the ringer for each wire.

Since the phone has only one condenser, it must be used for both the speech and ringer circuits, so the hook switch must handle the connection/disconnection between the circuits.  My phone does not have a ringer, and I do not know how everything should be wired.

Larry

Larry, which ringer are you looking at?  The one which is not working is in the 615 'claw' telephone.  It is difficult to see in the picture, but it does have a longer clapper than the other one, which I thought was one sign of a frequency ringer.

GG


Stephen, get on Ebay NOW and get THIS before someone else grabs it and tries to turn it into a lamp: 

Item number 140603196830  (copy & paste the item number into an Ebay search box).   Leich beehive magneto set for Buy It Now of $19.99 (about 11 Pounds if my currency conversion is about right).   "vintage crank telephone" is the listing title.   These are rare and $20 is an incredible steal of a deal, I would expect to see this going for $100 or more.  It has a chip or crack in the back of the ringer box but probably easily enough repaired with acrylics and PC-7 epoxy putty.

Seller says they ship to US, maybe you can pounce and then convince them to ship to the UK.    If you can't find the item and you want me to pounce, let me know and I'll do so and we'll figure out how to get it to you.  (B----y H--l, I am like so beyond-terrible at shipping stuff, so maybe someone else around here will volunteer for this?)


----

Your Leichs are contagious; I just scored one about fifteen minutes ago that I should have in a week.  The "232" style version but w/o the integral ringer box.  It's set up as an intercom so it might be a version minus the coil & capacitor, but I can put in a resistor/capacitor circuit if need be. 

The one I have coming to me has cloth handset and line cords, so we'll see how they managed to get 'em through the rear cord entry hole. 

The grommet in your cord entry hole is definitely an add-on, so I figured that might be the problem making the hole look too small.

The convertible desk/wall type looks better with a dial in it than with a magneto, but I always preferred my magneto desk sets with cranks sticking out the side, like Ericsson's magneto version of the 332, which IMHO is the archetype for how that should be done. 

Today was a wild day for me phone-wise.  I scored two interesting specimens I'll report on after they arrive (heh heh), then a friend rang up and told me he'd found a 302 in his Dad's basement during a visit, and he thought of me and asked, and his Dad said "sure you can have that old clunker," and lo & behold I now have a date-matched 302 from 1949 with a frequency ringer and in general need of a good clean and dial & ringer adjustment after which it'll look & work well.  I also ordered a photography setup with tripod and large white diffuser box, which means I'll start posting photos one of these days.   And last but not least, the unexpected score of the Leich "intercom," something I never expected. 

Anyway, post here after you pounce on that Leich beehive magneto set, we'll all be eagerly waiting for the news.

Wallphone

Stephen, It looks like you did well with the Leich's, especially getting them in one piece. I have had more Leich's broken during shipping than any other phone. FWIW, I have the bell box (cage) on my Model 90 the same way as yours with the vents in the front and the solid panels in the back although in every catalog I have ever seen them in, the solid panels are in the front. I don't own one but they look really sharp when the cradle is chromed.
Doug Pav

Stephen Furley

Quote from: GG on September 07, 2011, 04:38:57 AM

Stephen, get on Ebay NOW and get THIS before someone else grabs it and tries to turn it into a lamp: 

Item number 140603196830  (copy & paste the item number into an Ebay search box).   Leich beehive magneto set for Buy It Now of $19.99 (about 11 Pounds if my currency conversion is about right).   "vintage crank telephone" is the listing title.   These are rare and $20 is an incredible steal of a deal, I would expect to see this going for $100 or more.  It has a chip or crack in the back of the ringer box but probably easily enough repaired with acrylics and PC-7 epoxy putty.

Seller says they ship to US, maybe you can pounce and then convince them to ship to the UK.    If you can't find the item and you want me to pounce, let me know and I'll do so and we'll figure out how to get it to you.  (B----y H--l, I am like so beyond-terrible at shipping stuff, so maybe someone else around here will volunteer for this?)


----

Your Leichs are contagious; I just scored one about fifteen minutes ago that I should have in a week.  The "232" style version but w/o the integral ringer box.  It's set up as an intercom so it might be a version minus the coil & capacitor, but I can put in a resistor/capacitor circuit if need be. 

The one I have coming to me has cloth handset and line cords, so we'll see how they managed to get 'em through the rear cord entry hole. 

The grommet in your cord entry hole is definitely an add-on, so I figured that might be the problem making the hole look too small.

The convertible desk/wall type looks better with a dial in it than with a magneto, but I always preferred my magneto desk sets with cranks sticking out the side, like Ericsson's magneto version of the 332, which IMHO is the archetype for how that should be done. 

Today was a wild day for me phone-wise.  I scored two interesting specimens I'll report on after they arrive (heh heh), then a friend rang up and told me he'd found a 302 in his Dad's basement during a visit, and he thought of me and asked, and his Dad said "sure you can have that old clunker," and lo & behold I now have a date-matched 302 from 1949 with a frequency ringer and in general need of a good clean and dial & ringer adjustment after which it'll look & work well.  I also ordered a photography setup with tripod and large white diffuser box, which means I'll start posting photos one of these days.   And last but not least, the unexpected score of the Leich "intercom," something I never expected. 

Anyway, post here after you pounce on that Leich beehive magneto set, we'll all be eagerly waiting for the news.


It's post to US only, and the postage would be cripling anyway, probably about $100.  I don't generally collect wall 'phones, I do have a couple, as I have to move them around, I live as a lodger in one very small room.  Most of my 'phones are in storage.  I'll have to pass on this one, but I hope that somebody else from here gets it.  It's a nice looking 'phone.

Stephen Furley

#10
Quote from: GG on September 07, 2011, 04:38:57 AM

Stephen, get on Ebay NOW and get THIS before someone else grabs it and tries to turn it into a lamp:  

Item number 140603196830  (copy & paste the item number into an Ebay search box).   Leich beehive magneto set for Buy It Now of $19.99 (about 11 Pounds if my currency conversion is about right).   "vintage crank telephone" is the listing title.   These are rare and $20 is an incredible steal of a deal, I would expect to see this going for $100 or more.  It has a chip or crack in the back of the ringer box but probably easily enough repaired with acrylics and PC-7 epoxy putty.

Seller says they ship to US, maybe you can pounce and then convince them to ship to the UK.    If you can't find the item and you want me to pounce, let me know and I'll do so and we'll figure out how to get it to you.  (B----y H--l, I am like so beyond-terrible at shipping stuff, so maybe someone else around here will volunteer for this?)


----

Your Leichs are contagious; I just scored one about fifteen minutes ago that I should have in a week.  The "232" style version but w/o the integral ringer box.  It's set up as an intercom so it might be a version minus the coil & capacitor, but I can put in a resistor/capacitor circuit if need be.  

The one I have coming to me has cloth handset and line cords, so we'll see how they managed to get 'em through the rear cord entry hole.  

The grommet in your cord entry hole is definitely an add-on, so I figured that might be the problem making the hole look too small.

The convertible desk/wall type looks better with a dial in it than with a magneto, but I always preferred my magneto desk sets with cranks sticking out the side, like Ericsson's magneto version of the 332, which IMHO is the archetype for how that should be done.  

Today was a wild day for me phone-wise.  I scored two interesting specimens I'll report on after they arrive (heh heh), then a friend rang up and told me he'd found a 302 in his Dad's basement during a visit, and he thought of me and asked, and his Dad said "sure you can have that old clunker," and lo & behold I now have a date-matched 302 from 1949 with a frequency ringer and in general need of a good clean and dial & ringer adjustment after which it'll look & work well.  I also ordered a photography setup with tripod and large white diffuser box, which means I'll start posting photos one of these days.   And last but not least, the unexpected score of the Leich "intercom," something I never expected.  

Anyway, post here after you pounce on that Leich beehive magneto set, we'll all be eagerly waiting for the news.


It's still unsold; somebody buy it quick and give it a good home.

Don't be put off by it not having a dial; you could always rip out the magneto, fix the crank handle in place so it doesn't turn, cut a large hole in it and fit a touch-tone keypad; like this:

http://tinyurl.com/4ytd8tf

Wallphone

#11
It's hard to get excited about a one picture auction of a cracked phone when they don't show the damage. Cracked Leich's are plentiful and with shipping it turns into a $37.50 cracked phone. Plus I already have about six of them.
Doug Pav

Stephen Furley

Quote from: Wallphone on September 07, 2011, 07:06:42 AM
Stephen, It looks like you did well with the Leich's, especially getting them in one piece. I have had more Leich's broken during shipping than any other phone. FWIW, I have the bell box (cage) on my Model 90 the same way as yours with the vents in the front and the solid panels in the back although in every catalog I have ever seen them in, the solid panels are in the front. I don't own one but they look really sharp when the cradle is chromed.
Doug Pav

I've looked at the pictures on a couple of sites and they also have the plain panels at the front.  There's nothing to stop the base being fitted either way.  I suspect that mine may have been turned around because of the damage to the corner; putting this damage at the back rather than the front.  I'm cutting away the surplus epoxy with a sharp knife and a graver at the moment; if I can make a really good job of the repair then I'll probably turn it back the right way.  If the repair can be seen then I'll probably leave i as it is.

You may have noticed that my 90 has the later style handset.  Oldphoneworks have the earlier spitcup type Leich ones, but they're expensive, so I will leave it as it is for now.  I'll keep my eyes open, and if I can find the older style handset somewhere cheaply then I'll probably buy it.

LarryInMichigan

I have one of the earlier Leich handset with a spitcup.  While the transmitter is quite sensitive, the frequency response is not very good, so it make my voice sound like I am speaking though a metal tube.  Many people would complain about the quality, so I do not use it.  The later style handset use the same elements as a WE F1, so the sound quality is very good, but they are quite big and heavy.  The older style is considerably more comfortable to hold.

Larry

Stephen Furley

I've fixed the dial in the 615; I think the ringer in it must be a frequency one.  Next step is a good polish I think, then I need to order some new line cords;  Should they be cloth for both of these models?