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Help needed with Kellog dial card holder.

Started by Stephen Furley, August 18, 2009, 06:43:45 PM

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Stephen Furley

In the 'Look what I've just bought' thread in the 'Auction' section I asked a question, but nobody seems to be reading that thread at the moment, so I'm going to repeat it here, in case somebody who knows the answer didn't see it in the other place:

The dial card has been replaced by a piece of plain white paper, which looks like it's got damp at some time, though there's no sign of water damage on the dial itself; it's in excellent condition.  I have a reproduction Kellogg dial card which I'd like to fit, but I can't work out how to remove the retaining ring.  At one point around the edge of it there is a tiny hole, too small for a paperclip, a sewing needle might just fit, and next to that a slot just about the right size for a small screwdriver blade.  I thought that inserting such a blade would either enable the ring to be levered off, or release some sort of clip, but no luck.  Any idea how to get this thing off?


Phonesrfun

If you don't get someone else to chime in, I can look later on when I get home from work.  I just can't remember what the Redbar (Clearbar) does to release the card holder, but I do have one I can check.



-Bill G

Stephen Furley

Thanks Bill.

It's not the 'new' type dial shown in this pdf which HobieSport posted a link to:


http://www.strombergcarlsontelephone.com/kellogg/PDF/1947_BRCH_1000_XRAY.pdf


Maybe it's an older type, but it actually looks quite modern.  It's got a small coil spring in the centre at the back, and you can't see the governor, as you can in the one in the pdf.  It is in the latest repair photograph that I posted in the other thread, but I'm not sure if there's enough detail there for you to tell what type it is.  The '1' hole is much closer to the fingerstop than it is on most dials.


bingster

That sounds like an Automatic Electric dial.  It may have an "AE CO."  dimaond logo on the back of the dial in the casting.  The card retainer doesn't look like AE issue, though.  It appears to be square-shaped in cross-section.
= DARRIN =



Stephen Furley

Yes, it is square-shaped in cross section.  I've not seen a dial like it before.

Phonesrfun

To me it looks like an AE dial.  Mine is, and Kellogg used a lot of AE dials.  Here is a picture of mine with the dial center removed.  Notice the latching pawl that holds the card holder in.

Now go to this link, and it will explain how to get it off.

http://telephonecollectors.org/library/aeco/metaldials.pdf

Hopefully, this is what you need.

-Bill
-Bill G

Phonesrfun

By the way, the Escutscheon tool they mention can be an ordinary but small flat-tipped screwdriver.

-Bill G

Stephen Furley

Thanks Bill, but it's not that type.  That's the type that's fitted to my AE 40; I found it very difficult to get on and off.  Twice I got it on, but as I turned the latch it moved the card slightly, so It's not quite straight.  I'll have to look at again sometime.

This one turned out to be what I thought it was at first, a clip-on one.  It as just very tight, but you can remove it with a screwdriver in the small slot.  However, having got it off, it doesn't take either WE or AE cards.  the ones it uses are about the same size as the AE ones, not exactly the same, but have a horizontal rectangular notch at both top and bottom; does this sound familiar?  What I thought was just plain paper turns out to be the back of a proper dial card, but it looks like somebody' washed it.  Oldphoneworks don't sell these cards, nor the small SC ones with the three notches.  The reproduction WE and AE ones they do are really good.

This is quite different to either of the AE dials which I've got; which doesn't mean that it's not an AE of course.  My AE ones both have the 0 hole at exactly the bottom of the dial, whereas this one has it sightly to the right; the bottom of the dial is just about midway between the 9 and the 0.  The finger stop is close to the 0 hole, as on a British dial.  On my AE dials it's slightly further away.  The 1 hole is further round than on my AE dials, it's almost at the three o'clock position.  The movement of the dial when dialing 1 is very small, and the delay before the first pulse when releasing the dial must be very short.  The dial mechanism is very different to my AE ones, but also to the 'new' one in the Kellogg booklet.

bingster

I wonder if that could be a North Electric dial.  The number card archive shows several North dial cards that have notches at the top and bottom:

http://www.telephonearchive.com/numbercards/cards/north.html
= DARRIN =



Stephen Furley

The 'Compass card' and '367' ones do look very similar, but of course I can't tell the size from these pictures.  Do you have a picture of the back of a North dial?

I want to get the finger wheel off to clean the dial plate, but I can't see how to do it.  When you remove the card in the centre instead of a screw or nut it looks like the end of the spindle has been riveted over.

bingster

The only photos I could find were ones Dennis posted here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/2008/06/03/north-electric-galion-2/

I'm assuming it's a North dial.  Does the back of the dial in the first photo look like yours?
= DARRIN =



Dennis Markham

That link is actually phones that Mark Stevens posted.  I have not run into a North dial in my experience.  I always seem to get AE dials on my Galion phones.

bingster

Ahhh, sorry Dennis.  I came upon it after searching google, and I had mixed  up "classic" and "vintage."
= DARRIN =



Stephen Furley

Quote from: bingster on August 19, 2009, 05:02:31 PM
The only photos I could find were ones Dennis posted here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/2008/06/03/north-electric-galion-2/

I'm assuming it's a North dial.  Does the back of the dial in the first photo look like yours?

No, quite different.  I'll take a picture of it when I get a spare minute.

Phonesrfun

What I would do is visit Mike Neale's Kellogg web site at:

http://www.kelloggtelephone.com/



Mike (also known as "Kellogg Mike") seems to know all things Kellogg.  If his web site does not address the issue of the dial, you can at least e-mail him.  His e-mail address is down towards the bottom of the lead web page.

He has been a vast resource on Kellogg issues in the past.

-Bill G