AE stick

NorthernElectric · May 17, 2015, 07:42:59 PM

My elderly mom, who lives in a in a town a bit south of me got invited to a wedding in Toronto this weekend, and as she no longer drives, my siblings and I cooked up a relay to get her there. I picked her up yesterday and took her down to my brother's who is about halfway there, and he drover her down to my sister's place close to the city. I went down again today to bring her back. As it's the Victoria Day long weekend here, there were loads of yard sales to visit.

I missed out on a phone at one yesterday. I drove by that sale on the way down with mom in the car, but didn't stop due to time constraints. I did stop at that sale on my way back that afternoon and asked about phones and that's when the seller gave me the bad news that he had one but sold it that morning. I make it a habit when I stop at yard sales to ask about stuff that I want, just in case they have something that they didn't put out. Every now and then it pays off as at another sale that I stopped at, the seller told me that his tenant had some phones and might be interested in selling. He only showed me 2 phones on the Saturday, a UK wall phone of some sort (sorry I didn't recognize it and didn't get a model #) and an AE stepped base candlestick.

I sort of liked the AE, but he said he had another dial candlestick but couldn't find it right off (I guess it was put away or something). He thought it might be Northern Electric, so naturally I thought I might be more interested in that. Since I was heading back in that direction the next day, I told him I would think about the AE and asked if he could try and find the other candlestick and I would be back. When I went back today, he had managed to find a yellow AE spacesaver and a contempra-style lineman test handset, but hadn't managed to find the other candlestick. If I wasn't on a tight budget right now after just paying my car insurance, I might have made him a package offer on the 2 AE phones and maybe the contempra test set as well. But I decided to buy only the AE candlestick. He told me if the other stick turned up and I like it better, he would take the AE back and apply what I had paid for it ($65) towards the price of the other one. I left him my email and said I might take him up on that, or I might just like to have both.

Anyway, here it is, an AE stepped base candlestick with one of the 'Mercedes' dials. The receiver is not the original, but I'm hoping it is at least an AE, perhaps the type 42? Can anyone identify it? The phone was very dirty. I have only given it a quick cleaning for the photos. I think the nickeled (or is that chrome?) parts will clean up fairly nice and the original finish is not too bad with only a few minor rust spots. The stem is not on quite straight but it looks like I can fix that easy enough. The dial doesn't return; it tries to, but moves very slowly. When I looked inside there were a few dead bugs in there so hopefully cleaning and oiling will set it right.

Sorry for the blurry picture inside the base, but the black flies are out in hordes so I'm not going back out to take another right now.

stub · May 17, 2015, 08:50:54 PM

Cliff,
That's great AE Stepbase candlestick not sure on the receiver. Open it up . Here's a AE Type 42 receiver . stub

NorthernElectric · May 18, 2015, 02:47:02 PM

Thanks stub. I can't tell if mine's a match for yours or not. All I got is the shell, with a weighted handle and obviously designed for a capsule type receiver element. It is similar in design but not identical to a WE/NE 706A. The cap is different from my 706A and, the threads are different, and the HA1 receiver element is a sloppy fit. It does not have built-in contact screws. It looks like in yours, the case of the receiver element contacts the 2 bars that hook onto the rim. Is the other contact down inside part of an insert that just sits in there and all held in by the cap?

I've attached a couple of photos of the receiver shell, and also a few more with the stem rotated to the correct position and after some additional cleaning and polishing. I took a little 4 ought steel wool and oil to the finger wheel. I ran out of oil so when I did the transmitter face plate, I used spit. Then I polished both with Silvo. I wiped off the number plate with a damp cloth wrapped around a small screw driver. Though I had the dial out of the phone, I am chicken to dismantle it apart from removing the dial card. Are there any instructions for servicing these dials on this forum or elsewhere? The celluloid cover is in bad shape so I will have to make a new one. It turns out someone changed the number by sticking a piece of paper with 9 something to the outside of it. The original number was 28.

stub · May 18, 2015, 04:49:32 PM

Cliff,
The center terminal is held in place with a screw , on the right, and the metal tab springs up to meet the receiver center bar . stub

Ktownphoneco · May 18, 2015, 05:20:58 PM

Keep in mind, that a number of Telco's that used A.E. equipment, also employed series circuit telephone sets within their respective jurisdictions. A series circuit telephone was equipped with a receiver that had no magnet, and therefore, the receiver shell cavity was much smaller, and they added weight to the receiver shell during the manufacturing process to give it a finished weight similar to a standard booster circuit set.
I've attached a "pdf file" showing the "innards" of an A.E series circuit receiver of approximately the same age as you newly acquired step base desk stand. Your set may have been wired as a booster circuit with a capsule or cartridge receiver, intended for use in a booster or parallel circuit system, but it may also have been in service as a series circuit set.

Jeff Lamb

rdelius · May 18, 2015, 09:19:26 PM

That rec shell is a reproduction one that was intended to use the U-1 or R-7 capsule out of modern g type handsets. Watch out, if dropped the shell will break or split when the weight shifts.

andre_janew · May 18, 2015, 10:35:39 PM

To me the Type 41 element in stub's candlestick phone looks an awful lot like the Type 81 element in my Leich phone. Even so, I imagine there is some difference between the two. Right?

Jack Ryan · May 18, 2015, 11:01:45 PM

Quote from: andre_janew on May 18, 2015, 10:35:39 PM
To me the Type 41 element in stub's candlestick phone looks an awful lot like the Type 81 element in my Leich phone. Even so, I imagine there is some difference between the two. Right?

I believe a Type 41 receiver module is from a Type 41 (AE 40) handset and a Type 81 receiver module is from a Type 81 (AE 80) handset. Leich was part of AE so they may have used the Type 81 receiver in the Leich 900 handset. In that case there is a family resemblance.

Can anyone verify that?

Jack

stub · May 18, 2015, 11:54:11 PM

Cliff,
Here's the diagram on the AE 21 Series circuit with 3 conductor hookswitch (AE Bulletin # 1015, 1929 , pg 5)
This dc receiver has lugs to attach the wires to. The series set only needed the ringer and capacitor in the ringer box.
stub

NorthernElectric · May 19, 2015, 06:37:21 AM

Thanks all for the help on the receiver. Will either the DC or polarized receiver work with any of these phones? Or do I need to select the right type based on how my phone is configured? Would I be able to use the shell I got along with a U1 element temporarily until I got something authentic for this phone? I'm pretty sure the hookswitch has only 2 contacts. The phone came with a four conductor mounting cord which I believe is the original (too bad the outer cloth covering is gone except for the part that was inside the base

). I'll try to get some better pictures of the innards this evening.

Ktownphoneco · May 19, 2015, 08:15:35 AM

Cliff ... The first step is to determine the type of circuit the set is configured for. You've just mentioned that it "had" a 4 conductor mounting cord. That's a strong indicator the set was probably wired for a booster circuit. If that is in fact the case, it should have a 3 spring hook switch, and the dial should have 3 shunt springs, all open when the dial is at rest. The receiver type needs to coincide with the how the telephone is configured. The subset attached to an A.E. series circuit desk stand has "no" induction coil. Just a condenser and a ringer.
If the 4 conductor mounting is any indication, the attached schematic from the TCI library may be the correct one for your desk stand. See if this schematic matches how your set's wired, and should pretty much confirm that it was was configured as a booster circuit set.
This is assuming that no one has "played" with it prior to you acquiring it. (Schematic Attached)

Jeff Lamb

NorthernElectric · May 19, 2015, 07:56:49 PM

Quote from: Ktownphoneco on May 19, 2015, 08:15:35 AM...it should have a 3 spring hook switch...

I stated in an earlier post that this phone only has 2 hookswitch contacts. I was correct about that; there are only 2 spring contacts. What I hadn't noticed before is that the 3rd contact is a pointy screw bolted to the inner plate. The photo doesn't show the point very well, but you can clearly see the nut that holds it. I tested this with a meter just now and it is connected to terminal #2 on the terminal block and makes with the center contact when the phone is on hook. From the circuit diagram, this appears to switch the ring circuit on. The dial has the correct number of contacts and the connections between the main terminal block and the dial terminal block also match the diagram. So the wiring diagram from TCI looks like a match to my phone.

As I understand it, then, I will need to find an AE polarized receiver of the correct vintage to complete the phone. Correct?

Will the repro shell with a U1 capsule work with this phone until I get one?

Can I adapt a NE anti-sidetone subset (684-BX, 684-BA) to work with this phone?

Ktownphoneco · May 20, 2015, 11:09:36 AM

If you have a chance to get a clear picture of the inside of the base, I'd like to get a better look at the hook switch assembly.
As to whether or not you can use an ant-side tone subset as a side tone subset is a good question. Short answer - "maybe", and no guarantee's. The impedance between the windings of the two induction coils isn't the same. But it may be close enough to allow the step base set to function. I've prepared and attached a modified schematic of a 101-A induction coil in "pdf" format. I've changed the terminal markings on the 101-A to coincide with those in the schematic drawing I sent to you yesterday, and the third tertiary winding is by-passed altogether. Use both sides of the 195-A condenser, with slate / yellow (0.5 Mfd) for the ringer, and black / red (2.0 Mfd) talk circuit condenser.
You should be able to scrounge enough terminal points on the induction coil, and the small square terminal board normally occupied by one ringer connection only, to come up with enough connection points.
If you can't obtain satisfactory performance from the 101-A induction coil, you may need to locate the proper A.E. induction coil (listed below). A Western Electric No. 20 induction coil should also work. It's Primary winding has an impedance of 16 ohms, and the Secondary winding is 27 ohms.

Yes, you should be able to use a "U1" receiver capsule. Yes, it would be nice to acquire a proper A.E. polarized receiver for it. By the way, the proper induction coil for this set is most likely an A.E. D280389.

Jeff Lamb

NorthernElectric · May 20, 2015, 12:40:28 PM

Quote from: Ktownphoneco on May 20, 2015, 11:09:36 AMIf you have a chance to get a clear picture of the inside of the base, I'd like to get a better look at the hook switch assembly.

I thought I uploaded one with my post yesterday evening but I see it's not there; must have forgot to attach it.

I will upload it when I get home this evening.

Thanks very much for the subset wiring suggestions and schematic.

Quote from: Ktownphoneco on May 20, 2015, 11:09:36 AM...A Western Electric No. 20 induction coil should also work.

I have a couple of older NE induction coils in my parts box. I will have to see which one(s) they are and what impedances. Maybe I can throw together a subset from parts that will be more suitable.

Ktownphoneco · May 20, 2015, 01:25:24 PM

Yes, good idea. I have a couple of subsets on a "board" that I use for calibrating A.E. dials. They work well. I'm attaching the the induction coil schematic again. I left off the terminal reference guide. I'm sure you'd figure it out with no problem, but it's a good terminal cross reference to have right on the page. Here it is again.

Jeff

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