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One off of my Bucket List - Trommelwähler

Started by tubaman, May 04, 2019, 07:20:36 AM

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tubaman

I've wanted one of these for a very very long time and finally have one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-DRUM-DIALLER-TROMMELWAHLER-TELEPHONE-/183783277106

EXTREMELY RARE DRUM DIALLER (TROMMELWAHLER) TELEPHONE. Thought to be of German origin. Phone is in good condition for its age and is in good working order but it has no line cord fitted and it could do with a clean and polish. Dial drum runs smoothly and case has no cracks or marks other than some minor chips on the underside edge (see pics).


More correctly a Siemens Fg Tist 264, but usually referred to as a Trommelwähler (Drum Dialler).
It's in good sound shape and looks pretty original with everything dating 1954/55.
The drum dialler is a modified standard dial on its side - clever!
I'm actually quite amazed that any of these have survived as the case is a very thin, hard plastic and feels really fragile - this will definitely be a display only phone.
I think the price was fair (£138 plus postage) as these don't appear often, and most I've seen have either been much more expensive and/or in poor shape.

:)

FABphones

I came very close to bidding for that. Changed my mind last minute.
Very good price (he wanted £275 as a buy it now I was told by someone).

Glad it was u who got it and glad I didn't push the price up for you by bidding.
Very nice.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Jim Stettler

That is a nice nomination for find of the month
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

david@london

#3
Excellent find, Tubaman.  Seems like a fair price as it's in good condition.
No damage in transit?..... and does it transmit/receive/ring ok?
I will have to look into these.....such an unusual and stylish piece of 20th century design.

Edit :  Just found this film clip of the dialling action....

https://twitter.com/i/status/843560334384279552

Key2871

I saw one in a video somewhere, and thought what a cool piece. Congratulations on a very nice find.
KEN

tubaman

Quote from: david@london on May 04, 2019, 10:37:48 AM
Excellent find, Tubaman.  Seems like a fair price as it's in good condition.
No damage in transit?..... and does it transmit/receive/ring ok?
I will have to look into these.....such an unusual and stylish piece of 20th century design.



All seems to work just as it should and survived transit ok (it was well packed).
It will only be a display piece though as it really does feel rather fragile!
:)

Jack Ryan

Also called a Zugnummernschalter (pull dial) and was not a box office success. The dial itself was designed for telephone operators and was a bit more successful there than in subscriber telephones.

I have a 264a (no button) and I agree, it is an interesting telephone.

Jack

countryman

#7
I just received a Trommelwähler which I won on eBay. It's in a bit poorer condition but still not too bad, even more considering the price. It ended on a wednesday (yesterday) noon and the seller did not name it properly, just called it an "old phone, defective for spares". He has my full sympathy, even more as he shipped it immediately and well packed, so that it arrived less than 24 hours later.
The base is a Fg tist 261 made 1952 and should have a bakelite shell! But it has a later model 264 plastic shell. It has a hole on the left back corner that needs fixing. I consider using black epoxy putty? I was afraid the grey around the signal button was also from cracking, but it was removable glue stain.
The transmitter cap is also broken. Any Siemens cap would fit the thread, but to find a similarly shaped one will not be easy. Will it be fixable? The handset was specially designed for the Trommelwähler. It's shorter than earlier handsets and the caps are more rounded off, but still made from bakelite. Later models used the same design, but were made from lighter thermoplastic.

The 261 Trommelwähler was made from '50 on and in black or ivory duroplast (bakelite/melamin). The 264 appeared in '52 and was also available in red and green. These colored models are extremely rare. In '55  the production of the Trommelwähler ended and was replaced by the Fg tist 282. These still have the handset lengthwise across the shell, but use regular dials. All these models never were issued by the Bundestpost (phone co.) but only available for PBX.
Here's a nice video link n this unusual phone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxBpwQ1YW_c

Edited to correct dates

Doug Rose

Beautiful phone Countryman.

I have an Ivory Barrel phone but it has Siemens on it. It works! Really great alternative to rotary. Are the the same phone or different companies?....Doug
Kidphone

countryman

#9
These are the same phones, altough it seems yours has the earlier melamin duroplastic shell.
In the linked video it is mentioned that ladies with long fingernails did not like the system. Otherwise, agreed, it's fast and easy to operate, though not effortless. With some further development the finger force possibly would have been reduced. The basis of the dial is a conventional Siemens N38 put upright, with a different gear ratio to compensate the smaller angle of travel. The idea did not catch on though. Possibly Siemens was discouraged by early touchtone phones appearing at the same time, while the german Bundespost did not order the phones and also private sales were slow.
On eBay there's a toy Trommelwähler phone right now, that shows that they were noticed in the public - or were these promotional items? They don't have my preferred type of price tag on them, unfortunately.
I'll also add a rear view of mine with the Siemens lettering and an auction screenshot.

FABphones

#10
Quote from: countryman on November 21, 2019, 11:18:46 AM
....It has a hole on the left back corner that needs fixing. I consider using black epoxy putty? I was afraid the grey around the signal button was also from cracking, but it was removable glue stain.
The transmitter cap is also broken. Any Siemens cap would fit the thread, but to find a similarly shaped one will not be easy. Will it be fixable?

Well done, nice price. With a bit of work and patience it can be put right. First, double check the phone is ABS not Tenite.

I wouldn't use epoxy putty for the hole/break repair, you won't get the shine you need to match in. If ABS, and if it was me, I would repair the hole at the rear by making an ABS putty with *Acetone (do a search on here to read up on techniques). You are lucky in that you have a black phone so the colour match should be pretty good, but you may have a problem with micro air bubbles forming.

What is the white bloom around the hole?

Not quite sure I have followed your handset manufacture correctly, the endcaps are Bakelite? For that I would use epoxy putty. The colour match won't be exactly the same shade of black but the repair can be made well. The tricky bit will be to ensure the thread is accurate but epoxy putty is easy to work with. You could repair by using a resin and black pigment, but for that you will need a bit more kit, including a Vacuum Chamber to remove air bubbles.

If the endcaps are ABS I would again form the repair by making an ABS putty but this will be a bit trickier as the working time is shorter and both sides of the break need to be worked on to get good adherence. The issue here too will be air bubbles (which you will find more noticable as you sand).

I have never held a Trommelwähler, but if both endcaps (threads) are identical, you are in luck again as you have a good one to work from and copy.

*If you aren't familiar with using Acetone for repairs, this is not the phone to learn on. Practice first on some spare ABS pieces to get an understanding of adherence, cure times etc.

Hope this helps a bit. Start a new thread (hopefully a mod will move this over to it) so we can follow your progress?
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Doug Rose

Quote from: countryman on November 21, 2019, 01:31:35 PM
These are the same phones, altough it seems yours has the earlier melamin duroplastic shell.
In the linked video it is mentioned that ladies with long fingernails did not like the system. Otherwise, agreed, it's fast and easy to operate, though not effortless. With some further development the finger force possibly would have been reduced. The basis of the dial is a conventional Siemens N38 put upright, with a different gear ratio to compensate the smaller angle of travel. The idea did not catch on though. Possibly Siemens was discouraged by early touchtone phones appearing at the same time, while the german Bundespost did not order the phones and also private sales were slow.
On eBay there's a toy Trommelwähler phone right now, that shows that they were noticed in the public - or were these promotional items? They don't have my preferred type of price tag on them, unfortunately.
I'll also add a rear view of mine with the Siemens lettering and an auction screenshot.
thanks for the insight on these...Doug
Kidphone

countryman

Thanks for the tips FABphones. The handset is entirely made from Bakelite. I guess I'll start and try to repair this first. The damage on the rear side isn't as annoying. And indeed, working with acetone on ABS better should be practiced. I'm pretty much convinced the shell is ABS, for sure it is not Tenite and not Bakelite.
The grey stuff around the button (and around the crack, too) was residue from adhesive tape someone put on there.
The wiring diagram of this phone is identical with a standard German W48. The signal button normally was used as a (now futile) earthing button, but by removing a jumper it can be made into a flash button - not the fancy version with a defined flash time, but my VOIP router easily accepts a quick push as a flash signal.

tubaman

Nice find and a good price too.
My one has the plastic case and it is very thin and feels very fragile, so I'm not surprised that they get broken.
I didn't know the earlier versions had Bakelite cases - that sounds much more robust.
:)

Babybearjs

didn't WE try this design? I faintly remember a 302 that was looking like that.
John