AE40 Won't Dial Out

[AE_Collector]

provide fake dial tone and almost phone service.

A Big 10-4 to that Good Buddy!

Terry

[gands-antiques]

I discovered something really strange today....if I manually help return the dial faster than it normally wants to return when each number is dialed all but one of my phones will dial out.

** The AE40 works when the dial is forced faster as described above (dials out, rings and receives calls) even with the lose wire not connected.

Is there a way to adjust dials so they will return faster?

Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

Yes--it's called a governor.

[stub]

gands-antiques,
                  Gently bend in the brass stems, to speed up the gov., with something ( finger , tooth pick , screw driver). Do one then try to dial out , if it doesn't work bend in the other one till it will dial right. Here's a pic.  stub

[G-Man]

I discovered something really strange today....if I manually help return the dial faster than it normally wants to return when each number is dialed all but one of my phones will dial out.

** The AE40 works when the dial is forced faster as described above (dials out, rings and receives calls) even with the lose wire not connected.

Is there a way to adjust dials so they will return faster?

Thanks,
Gary

It really should not seem strange since a number of the replies you received pointed out the dials have to be adjusted to a fairly close tolerance when being used with some of modern IP based telephony services.

Even if you acquire the knack of adjusting these dials, it still may not resolve your problems since your customers may have ATA's that may have an even narrower tolerance for ever so slightly out of spec dials.

By all means try adjusting them yourself but you may end up doing more harm than good and the final solution may be sending them on a short vacation to Steve Hilsz for a good cleaning and repair.

As was previously requested, it would still be nice to know the manufacturer and model number of the ATA modem in order to see if their pulsing tolerances could be adjusted.

[gands-antiques]

Thanks for the governor adjustment information. Are you talking about adjusting the two opposing
springs/stems on the side of the shaft in or out?  

I have several dials like the one in the picture you provided and then I also have several like the one I'm posting.  Will you please tell me also how to adjust the type with the governor enclosed in the round brass housing?

Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

WE 2, 4 and 5 type dials:

You want the adjusting screw at the top of the governor as it is in the photo. Use some long-nose pliers in the bottom half of the round, brass case to keep the governor from rotating. Then, slightly loosen the screw in the top part of the case. Then move the arm  under the screw left (faster) or right (slower) to adjust the speed. Tighten the screw and remove pliers and test.

Originally, anything between 8 and 11 pulses per second was acceptable. If a dial failed this test, and you had to adjust it, you would aim at a more precise 9.5 to 10.5 pulses per second.

(Info verified in BSP Issue 8, Section 501-162-100, December 1968. Station Dials: 5, 6, 7, and 8 Types, Identification and Maintenance.)

[gands-antiques]

Thanks David,

I appreciate the governor adjustment information.

Gary   

[poplar1]

Thanks for the governor adjustment information. Are you talking about adjusting the two opposing
springs/stems on the side of the shaft in or out?  

For the AE dial: think Centrifugal Force--this forces the water to stay in the bucket if you hold the bucket horizontally while turning yourself around in circles. Likewise, the spinning governor weights push against the outer case rim; bending them out will increase the drag, thus slowing the dial. Bending them in speeds it up.

[Phonesrfun]

The topic has morphed to governor adjusting, but back to the ATA's intolerance to speed variations for a moment...

This is a theory of mine, and one that I have never been able to prove.  

Old rotary dial phones used the dial to rapidly turn the phone on and off at a rate of nominally, 10 times per second.  Historically, the central offices of old were pretty tolerant of variations in speed and also in the way the on-off pulses were received at the central office.  By that, I mean that the primary circuit of a phone such as the AE 40, the 302, the 500 and so forth all had inductors that were switched in and out of the circuit.  Add to that, the fact that the inductive ringer and its capacitor are also in the circuit during dialing.  Then, add to that the fact that the line between the house and the central office also had inductive and capacitive properties.  With these inductive and capacitive properties the on and off voltages tend to surge through these components causing some temporary voltage spikes.  That means that the thing receiving the dial pulses does not "see" a perfectly squared off square wave.  No problem in the past, the equipment could deal with it, since it was able to count just about any imperfect on-off pulse as long as it had the mechanical ability to follow the pulses.

The 302 has a feature with its wiring that it shorts out the inductor during dialing to help this out, but not all phones do that, and even the 302 has the ringer in the circuit during dialing, as do all other phones.

Fast forward to the electronics age.  The ATA's don't have DC relays to "follow" the pulsing of the dials.  They have a chip that sits there and waits for some kind of input.  On/off hook, tones and pulses.  In each case the chip is programmed to respond very specifically to the inputs it gets.  If the programmer has not built in any code that allows for any variations in timing or wave form, it will not understand what it is being asked to do.  An irregular wave form might be mistaken for two pulses, for instance.  (My theory).

The programmer made the ATA respond to dial pulses, but was probably given a spec sheet on a modern electronic phone that has a little switch on the side to make pulses instead of tones.  The electronic phones can also be perfectly programmed to pulse very specifically timed pulses with very specific timing between pulses (Make/break ratio).  Also, the modern electronic phone has no inductors and presents a purely resistive load to the line or device it is connected to.  Thus, no voltage spikes to confuse the look and feel of the pulsing the ATA receives.

Again, this is my theory, and kind of a wordy post.  Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Now back to governor adjusting......  Oh, and by the way there are really two adjustments.  The speed which is controlled by the governor, and the make/break ratio, which is controlled mechanically by the spacing of the pulsing contacts.  

[poplar1]

Gary, if you have a chance to read the label on the Analog Telephone Adapter, in order to get the manufacturer name and model number, perhaps we could research the specs for it. Is is also possible that the firmware has been changed at the fake-CO (Cox)?

Bill, I agree with everything you wrote with one exception: looking at the diagram furnished by G-man in Reply #3, in the AE 40, the ringer is disconnected when the phone is off-hook.

I think you'd agree that changing the make-break ratio of the dial might be left to Steve.

On the other hand, without any tools one can determine the approximate speed by simultaneously releasing 2 dials at once: for example, dial zero on a known working dial and 8 on the unknown dial; if they stop at the same time, then the unknown dial is 8 pulses per second. If they don't arrive at the same time, then experiment with different combinations.

[gands-antiques]

Thanks a lot Bill & David.

If you will tell me where to find the Analog Telephone Adapter label I will provide the info to you.

Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

It could be marked something like Cisco or Linksys + a model number.

[gands-antiques]

Adding pictures of new modem....

[dsk]

Maybe cleaning and oiling should have been done before adjusting?
At least a little oil on the gear andshafts. But just a little! Noting on the governor!

dsk