1936 WE 202 with 684A subset in great condition

[loblolly986]

I recently got this Western Electric 202 with its original 684A subset on eBay. It's in really nice condition with only light signs of use, as if it was used a little and then stored in a closet or such - this is no "barn find". The Bakelite has some scratches, mostly to the subset case top (probably from storage) with a crack on one bottom corner, but it is still shiny and otherwise smooth, as is the satin paint on the D1 mounting. The logo patch on the handset is in crisp "uncirculated" condition, as are the "D1" and "U S A" stamps on the mounting. Cradle has some light paint chipping and wear. The dial turns readily, and the fingerstop plating has some flaws but is still very shiny. The old dark-brown cloth cords are in great condition with no frays.

The subset is dated III-36 throughout (didn't see a date on the case); the D1 base and mounting cord are dated IV-36 (didn't check the handset cord when the base was open; don't see a stamp from the photos); F1 transmitter is dated 11-36 and has the red membrane; transmitter cap is marked "1036" in a vertical line. The 4H dial looks to be a 2A conversion from the ink letter stamp under one of the terminals; a date wasn't visible from inside the phone. Didn't want to take the fingerwheel off but the faceplate has the right font and plastic-y look of a contemporary celluloid-coated plate. I'm also hesitant to open the receiver to check the date, at least until I've had a chance to test it - the design of these with the separate diaphragm makes me skittish. But from the dates I did see and the condition, it seems likely it's an all-original phone across the board.

I paid $120 plus $19.60 shipping, not cheap but I think money well spent. (See the eBay listing for extra photos.) Curiously it only got one listed watcher other than me and the view count didn't even reach 20. The "21-20" on the number card isn't a telephone number format I'm familiar with; does anyone have any insight on what this was for?

Zachary.

[Ktownphoneco]

Zachary   ...  You scored a beautiful set and in a condition that 99% of telephone collectors dream about.     In that condition, you really did get a bargain.     Your right, the dial is a 2/4 conversion.    I repair, restore and calibrate dials, and I can tell you from the appearance of the dials spring switches on the back, (excellent pictures by the way) that the dial hasn't dialed many numbers during the course of it's life, and the condition of everything else inside the base that I can see, confirms that fact.     I've been collecting for over 25 years, and I've never seen the inside of a D1 / 202 in such beautiful condition.    It's amazing really.
The subset is also in pristine condition.    Unfortunately the Bakelite covers do tend to crack.    Usually from too much screw pressure on the two screws that hold the cover in place, or someones stored it with something sitting on top.    Dropping them tends to do more than create a crack.   There's usually a crack or two and one or more pieces broken out of the case.    By the way, the factory rarely date stamped the Bakelite covers, just the metal mounting base, which yours is.
As you've suggested, test the handset first, and if it functions correctly, I'd suggest leaving it as is.   

Great work spotting it on eBay, and good for you, it's a fantastic set.   If you ever choose to sell it, you'll get all your money back and then some.

Jeff Lamb     

[tubaman]

Zachary,
You've done very well to get such a nice date matching setup. Finding these with the original subset is not easy as they were often left on the wall or separated when the phone was removed.  The whole lot really doesn't look like it saw very much use at all.
I bet if you connect it to a line it'll work as well as the day it left the factory.

[HarrySmith]

Wow! That is in amazing condition. You certainly got a great deal on a dates matching keeper!

[loblolly986]

Thanks all! The dial turns really nicely - the mechanism certainly doesn't seem to have much wear or gunk. I wasn't too keen on removing the transmitter and cap either, being more inclined to leave it in its probable "untouched from the factory" state, but with the self-contained design of the F1, I decided it'd be worthwhile to gather the dates and bolster the likelihood of this having all original parts. (The 625A adapter wasn't as willing to give way as the cap, so I decided against trying further at the time.)

Figured I'd post some more of the photos I took. Even the transmitter cap insert/"grid" has shine to it.

[loblolly986]

(continued)

[Ktownphoneco]

I can't get over the condition of the cords and components inside the base of the set.     The set itself had to have been stored in a fairly well sealed container.      Looking at the cording, it's still in pristine condition and is arranged in the correct factory approved method of how the D1 / 202 desk sets were wired.      I have a color drawing of how the D1's were suppose to be wired at the factory, and I've included that in one image along with picture Zachary took of the inside of his set.    The factory wiring methodology is evident in the image of his set.

Something else I noticed, is I'm pretty sure the set has a celluloid number plate.     In that kind of condition, and all by itself, I'm sure it would sell for at around $75.00 to $80.00.    The prices for old telephones and related parts have come down over the last few years, but I paid $127.50 for a pristine celluloid number plate in December of 2012.     Click to enlarge the image.

Jeff Lamb

 

[dsk]

Congratulations , and thank you for the photos.  Now I know how mine could have been.
Still with replacement wires, home-made subset and dial center, I have a nice working phone too, so I am just a little envious 

Don't sell it! use it 

dsk

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16538.msg171073#msg171073

[loblolly986]

The faceplate has an off-white color and plastic-like appearance consistent with celluloid plates I've seen in photos, along with the period semi-block font of the letters. It has light finger scratches from use, but it is a good example of one. The ones I see on eBay now aren't quite that expensive but still not a small amount for a mere plate and I can certainly imagine they've fetched much more before - after all, people are willing to spend a considerable chunk of change just for a 4H dial. Yeah, the inside of the mounting probably hasn't been touched since it was originally assembled.

I'm thinking of hooking up a spade-to-modular line cord to the phone to test its functionality but certainly won't be pressing it into service; I don't want to diminish how intact its original condition is, and I've disturbed it enough opening things up to get the dates and photos I did get. No intention of selling either; collecting the old pre-302 sets isn't for the cash-strapped and triple-digit prices aren't something I can afford all the time. This will probably be a hard one to top for me.

I neglected including this photo above: the small folded piece of paper that was sticking out from under the condenser. I put it back approximately how it was.

[Ktownphoneco]

Well, you can be thoroughly happy with your purchase.     I have no doubt that the 101A induction coil in the subset will be dated 1936 as well, and it's one of the early versions with the elevated terminal deck.   The earliest listing I have for that induction coil is Western Electric's 1935 Telephone Apparatus Catalog No. 9 - 1935.       According to that catalog, the induction coil was identified as simply "101".     There was no "A" suffix letter.    By the way, the date stamps on the early 101 induction coils was located on the side of the fiber or composite coil end panels.      Use a flash light and maneuver the subset so you can get a look at the end panels on the right and left of the coil.   Somewhere on the panels should be the date of manufacture in reddish vermilion ink stamp.

I also sent you a personal message - "PM". 

Jeff 

[HarrySmith]

I enlarged the picture and can see the date stamp on the coil but could not read it. See attached picture, marked in red.

[Doug Rose]

When did WE start using the newer coil, I have a II35 with the old version...Doug

[loblolly986]

The induction coil is indeed signed "101 A" and dated "III 36". The condenser is dated the same as well. Attached are a few more photos from angles where these can be seen.

I'll also mention for anyone interested that the mounting cord restraint is stamped D4N above the date.