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French hanging phone

Started by ReneRondeau, October 03, 2019, 02:12:54 PM

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ReneRondeau

I just got back from a delightful two weeks in France and returned with a new acquisition: a phone made by the Société Industrielle des Téléphones in Paris.

Back in 1981 I had found an extremely similar example at the Paris flea market, made by the same company. The main difference was that the handset hook switch was mounted on the same side as the handset, rather than looping over the top as on this one. I prefer this design. That phone had a dead-straight handset; I suspect that someone neatly bent the mouthpiece on this one to angle it more comfortably, though it shows no stretch marks or any other signs of alteration. If it was bent, it was very neatly done.

I am not sure what the markings on the back mean. Manufacture date of 1924, perhaps? The handset and extra earpiece are all marked with the company's name and address so it's all correct.

I have long regretted having sold my first one so I was very happy to find this, and at a price that (adjusted for inflation) is even cheaper than 38 years ago.

I had wired my first one for use, attached to a touchtone keypad inside an old ringer box. I have long since forgotten what little I knew about phone wiring. I wouldn't want to attempt that again, but I have considered wiring this to at least use to answer occasional calls, but not dial out. That said, I am pretty clueless how to go about it, and I'm starting to question whether it's worth altering such an original phone. I think I'll probably keep it on my desk as a display piece.

countryman

Congrats to that great find!
The mark on the plate is a PTT (french state telephone co.) approval stamp:
http://alain.levasseur.pagesperso-orange.fr/ go to "Les poincons" in the menu.
This phone was approved in april 1924!

I do not think you need to change anything in this phone in order to hook it to any analog phone line. Be aware that there is no ringer inside. With other phones in parallel, you won't need one.
Biggest problem might be a dead carbon microphone. These are usually subject of ageing. A modern carbon or even transistorized transmitter element might be fitted into the handset and you'd be good to go. Just keep the original element for originality.

19and41

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

FABphones

Very nice. Where did you find it?
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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HarrySmith

That is an awesome phone. Congrats on a great find. It appears you could hook it up to use fairly easily with a subset. Not sure because I am not famiiliar with european sets but I think you could just hook the transmitter & receiver to a subset and use it. Not changing anything in the phone just run a cord out and leave the insides as is.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Jack Ryan

That's a nice phone and it is quite unusual - the handset is on the wrong side. I don't think I have ever seen a phone with the handset (or receiver) on that side.

I have seen quite a lot of "bent" handsets like yours - I assumed that it was made that way (as well as the straight version).

Regards
Jack

FABphones

Quote from: Jack Ryan on October 03, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
...the handset is on the wrong side. I don't think I have ever seen a phone with the handset (or receiver) on that side...

I don't have one of these to compare, but I wonder if it is possible that the column has been turned. I've never seen this configuration either.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Jack Ryan

This one is quite similar and has the "bent" handset as well.

Jack

ReneRondeau

That one looks almost identical to mine.

I remembered a book about French phones I bought in Paris over 25 years ago, so I just dug it out. There are a number of phones with the bent mouthpiece section. Then I stumbled on the image below, which unfortunately straddles the break between two pages so it's not as clear as I'd wish. It is listed as a "SIT" (Société Industrielle des Téléphones) and dated 1925. Except for the addition of a dial, it appears identical to mine. And it also has the bend, so I'm now sure that is as it was made and not an alteration.

I don't see how the handset could not be on the correct side -- the curved arm at the top is the hook switch. In the book I saw a lot of phones similar to the one I used to have, with the hook switch arm on the same side as the receiver, but also several with designs similar to this, many quite ornate.

Suffice it to say that I'm very happy with it.

Jack Ryan

#9
Quote from: ReneRondeau on October 03, 2019, 10:23:25 PM
I don't see how the handset could not be on the correct side -- the curved arm at the top is the hook switch. In the book I saw a lot of phones similar to the one I used to have, with the hook switch arm on the same side as the receiver, but also several with designs similar to this, many quite ornate.

It is not that just the handset is on the wrong side - it is on the correct hook. The hook is on the wrong side.

It may be that the shaft has been reversed in the base.

Regards
Jack

ReneRondeau

#10
My bad. I totally misunderstood. I realized my mistake just as I sat down for dinner, but I also realized my wife wouldn't appreciate it if I said I had to urgently go update a post I made online to spare myself embarrassment.  ;)

It is possible that the shaft is turned. It doesn't turn by hand, and I haven't taken off the base to see how it is attached. I will probably do that over the weekend.

But looking at photos in the book I mentioned, and also at my 1905 Pasquet wallphone, I see many images of phones with the handset (or earpiece) on the right and the 'mother-in-law' receiver on the left. Somehow that seems more logical to me, but my personal perception is obviously not necessarily historically accurate.

I will dig a bit deeper on this interesting facet.

I really appreciate all the replies and helpful input in this thread!

Jack Ryan

Quote from: ReneRondeau on October 03, 2019, 11:29:02 PM
But looking at photos in the book I mentioned, and also at my 1905 Pasquet wallphone, I see many images of phones with the handset (or earpiece) on the right and the 'mother-in-law' receiver on the left.

Can you post some examples?

I have seen a lot of Thomson Houston telephones with the handset hanging on the wrong side. In this case it happens because someone has replaced the bell with a dial on what was a manual set without provision for a dial. The dial and the bell have the same mount and it is a tempting modification.

The image posted is of a manual telephone with bell. If the bell is removed and a dial is mounted in its place, you end up with a back-to-front telephone.

Quote
Somehow that seems more logical to me, but my personal perception is obviously not necessarily historically accurate.

It might seem logical to pick up with your preferred hand (presumably the right hand) but telephones were designed so that you pick up with the left hand and you can take notes with your right hand.


FABphones

Quote from: ReneRondeau on October 03, 2019, 11:29:02 PM
.....But looking at photos in the book I mentioned....

Which book do you have? 'téléphones d'un temps perdu'?

-----

Just for further info, the correct name for the Mother in Law receiver is 'ecouter'
(pronounce the e as in 'e'ngine, then 'cou', then 'tay'  -  e-cou-tay).

Designed for holding up to the second ear to improve sound quality as early rural lines were often poor.

-----

Rene, which Paris market did you buy this from?
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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ReneRondeau

The 1992 book I'm referring to is titled "Téléphones d'hier et d'aujourd'hui" published by Editions de l'Est.

I am aware that the correct term for the extra earpiece is écouteur but I chose to use the common English term, though I realize it is technically incorrect.  ;)  (Je dois ajouter que je suis francophone.)

I found this while in Bordeaux, where I have spent a lot of time over the years.

Getting back to the phone, I took off the bottom this morning to see about turning the main shaft to put the receiver on the left. After seeing the maze of wires, and no obvious way to remove all of that to access whatever secures the shaft to the base, I decided to leave well enough alone.

I'm also adding a photo from the book showing another phone with the receiver on the right. I wish I had a photo of the SIT phone I owned in the early 80s. I swear (from memory) that it was also set up this same way, but I confess that my memory is not what it used to be...

FABphones

Quote from: ReneRondeau on October 04, 2019, 12:24:58 PM
.....I am aware that the correct term for the extra earpiece is écouteur......

I thought you might, but good to add the info to the thread so the additional earpiece name isn't unknown to future members finding this thread.

:)
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************