211 Western Electric Space Saver Help

[Conrad]

I recently aquired  a Western Electric Space Saver 211 (43A) telephone that I would like to install into an antique police call box, along with a 485 subset. Upon initial surfing on the internet, I connected the green and yellow post to an active telephone line to determine if the phone was in operating order. I was able to dial and connect, but the volume being omitted from the receiver was very low and distant.

I proceeded to connect the phone to the subset via the use of a wiring diagram (found on the internet) that was designed for a 425E network. I discovered that my subset is equipped with a 425B network. Any suggestions on how to get this telephone working properly with the subset is greatly appreciated.

[poplar1]

Conrad, using a 425B or 425E network is fine. (Did you mean 685A subset instead of 485?) You will need 5 wires from the 211 to the subset. It is possible that someone changed the wiring in the 211 if you were able to dial out when connecting the line directly to the GN and Y terminals.

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2142&Itemid=11

If you have the older handset with 3 conductor cord, then ignore the second white receiver wire going to R terminal.

[Conrad]

Poplar
My apology for the misinformation I provided referring to the subset. It is a 685 subset with a 425B network.

I have followed the 5 wire diagram that you provided and unfortunately the "C"  terminal located on the 425B  network card has a wire soldered into the terminal. The remaining end  of that wire is connected to the '2' terminal located adjacent to the "K" terminal.  I connected the Blue wire to the "2" terminal. No luck.  The remaining four wires are connected from the phone to the 425 B network as prescribed using the 425E Network diagram.

The receiver is equipped with three wires which I did disconnect the white wire from the red post as suggested.

The subset ringer does function but the space saver is dead upon being connected to the subset.

Not throwing the towel just yet.

[poplar1]

There is a more accurate diagram from the TCI website:

http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2139&Itemid=11

This is actually for a 202 (desk phone) but the wiring is the same as a 211.

I reread your response in which you said that the bell was ringing but no dial tone, which means you were using L1 and L2 on the terminal strip and not on the network. This is OK if you follow the new diagram. Notice that in the new diagram that L1, L2, G and F network terminals don't have anything connected to them.

Also, make sure the black handset wire in your phone is not going to BK on the dial but rather to the B terminal in the base of the phone near the R terminal. (In the new diagram this is shown next to "note 1" with instructions to use a connector, but you can use the B terminal instead.)

[Conrad]

Poplar,
Attempted to connect using the most recent wiring diagram. Unfortunately no luck. I did check the black handset wire which is properly affixed to the (B) terminal which is located adjacent to the (R).
I will attempt to describe the current wire configuration presently in the phone in the event you may be able to diagnose my problem.
                  211 Space Saver                                                                   685A Subset
            Terminal on theLEFT SIDE of phone facing dial.

           (GN)                                                    to                                  (GN)  425B Network
           (W)                                                      to                                  Rotary Dial only
           (Y)                                                       to                                  (L2 - Terminal Strip)         
           (BK)    DBL Terminal                              to                                  Rotary Dial only

          Terminals on the RIGHT SIDE of phone facing dial.
            ALL terminals are double.

           (BL)  Connected to dial                        and                                (2) - Terminal Strip)
           (R)   Connected to Hand Set                and                                (R) - 425B Network
           (B)    Connected to Hand Set                and                               (B)  - 425B Network

  The remaining line is connected to the hand set  that is connected a yellow wire leading into the rotary dial. Thank you for being patient with me.  Hope this helps.         

[poplar1]

"The remaining line is connected to the hand set  that is connected a yellow wire leading into the rotary dial."

I don't understand what you are saying here.
W terminal on switch goes to BB of dial. (You can take the back cover off the dial to see the connections).
White receiver wire goes to W of dial.
BK terminal on switch goes to Y of dial
BK of dial goes to 2 in the subset

Also, in the subset there is a wire going from L1 of the terminal strip to RR on the network.

And the incoming line goes to L1 and L2 of the terminal strip not L1 and L2 of the network.

[Conrad]

David,
Again I apologize for being a novice in my attempts to describe the wiring within this set.

I did opened the dial cover. The white and yellow lines appear to be properly connected as you described. I believe it is the two black lines that are the issue.

As you stated I should have a line connected to the BK terminal from the switch connecting to a Y terminal within the dial. This connection does not exist.  I do have a line connected to the BK terminal at the switch which is connected to a terminal having no letter designation within the dial. I checked very carefully with a magnifying glass and there is no letter stamped adjacent to this terminal.

The second black line is connected to a terminal that is stamped BL within the switch. The end of the line is connected to a terminal within the dial that is also stamped BL.

The BK terminal located within the the dial assembly was observed to have no line connection

I do have the incoming lines leading into the subset connected to the L1 & L2 on the terminal strip.

Hope this clarifies the confusion I am creating for you.

Thank you.

[poplar1]

Conrad, the dial normally used on a 211 is either a 5H or 6A. But I think you have a newer dial. The 6A has a plastic cover over the contacts. 5H terminals left to right are W, Y, BK, BB and R. 6A terminals left to right are Y, R, BK, BB and W.

R, B and BL are just terminals inside the bottom part of the phone and are not connected to the switching contacts.

[poplar1]

If the dial has terminals marked BL, G, BB, W, R, BK (not necessarily in that order), then G and BL are equivalent to Y and BK of the older 6A or 5H dial. R and BK are not used on this dial. W and BB have the opposite purpose of the W and BB in the older 5H and 6A dials, which means you will have to change the wiring if you have this dial (white handset wire will have to go to W on the switch then W and BB on the dial are used to short out the red and white receiver wires.)

Can you see a model number on the dial (5H, 6A, 6T, 6U or an F followed by 5 digit number)? Also, on the front of the phone there is a model stamped in the metal such as G1, G2, G6 or G7.

Anyone else want to jump in here?

[Phonesrfun]

Maybe he should post a good photo of the back of the dial.  That way, someone can post it back to him with markings on it as to which wires to connect to which terminals on the dial, pictorially.  If it is one of the #6 series of dials, the terminal markings can be hard to read for a beginner.  Or, if he can at least post the dial number, that would be a great start.

[Conrad]

David,The identification numbers that I was able to retrieve from the phone is G7 and 43A. Within the the dial housing is the number 5 stamped into the plastic housing that encases the dial assembly.

After reading Bill Geurts post, I re-examined the dial and identified the following terminals adjacent to the dial that are currently connected.
BK terminal from switch connected to G terminal on dial.
BL terminal on switch connected to BL terminal on dial.
W terminal on  switch connected to BB on dial.
W line from handset connected to W on dial.
The R and BK terminal adjacent to the dial have no connections.

I believe that I have covered all the connections within the dial. What next to correctly attach the phone to the subset?

[poplar1]

I think you have the connections correct in the subset, so long as there is a jumper wire from L1 on terminal strip  to RR on network.

The problem is that the dial is different from the ones usually used. So you will need to move the white handset wire from W on the dial to W on the switch. If you have dial tone now, there will be pops in your ear when the dial returns.

Then run a piece of wire from  the terminal with the red handset wire to W on the dial. (Leave the wire going from W on the switch to BB on the dial.)

The problem is I think that the diagrams are for a dial that opens W and BB while dialing, but the dial you are using shorts the W and BB contacts on the dial when you turn the dial (you can probably look at the dial while you are turning it and see two sets of contacts  (W/BB and R/BK) that close for the duration of the dial being wound up and releasing, and two contacts (G and BL) that open and close repeatedly corresponding to the number dialed (open and close 7 times ifyou dial a 7).

[Conrad]

After many attempts to get my 211 space saver in operating order, I was successful with one exception.  I am able to receive sound but I am not able to transmit. I have replaced the F1 transmitting element but had no luck. Any ideas?

[poplar1]

The transmitter is connected to the black and red wires in the handset cord. On the other end of this cord, the black wire goes to B and the red wire to R.

In the subset, the wire from B terminal above goes to B on the 425 network and the wire from R terminal above goes to R on the 425 network.

[Phonesrfun]

I have gone through the BSP 502-301-101 (March, 1970) and have come up with a detailed step-by-step narrative on how to connect the 211 to a 685A subset using 5-conductor inside wire (or any 5-conductor wire for that matter).  This particular 211 is configured using a 6J dial which shunts the receiver instead of switching it.  This also uses an F1 handset.

So, here it is, both in jpg and pdf format.  If you can't read the jpg "picture", open the jpg version.

[Note:]  I edited this since my original post.  I had the black handset cord wire listed twice, and omitted the red handset wire.  This version corrects that typo.