About a year or more ago I found a good buy on a Mahogany Western Electric Model 500D. It was listed on Craigslist. I convinced the woman to ship it although she was reluctant. She preferred local pick up. She was in Maine and I'm in Michigan. But after many e-mails with instructions on how to pack the phone she agreed.
It is dated 12/1957...near the very end of the production run for this color. I have been wanting to begin work on it for a long time but had other projects. Today I made a trade with another collector for a Mahogany 500 that I had sitting on my shelf. So with a vacant spot on the shelf I figured it was time to get to work on this one. The only problem is a huge, deep scratch on the top. I inspected it very carefully and determined it is only a scratch and not a crack.
So tonight I began on the cover and thought I'd share some photos as I progress through refurbishing the phone. It is probably going to take me a while as I have other projects that must get done but for today the Mahogany 500 gets attention.
The accompanying photos show the phone as I got it and the cover after I gave it a polishing tonight. I like to clean and polish it to see just where all the imperfections are before I dig out the sandpaper. I know the scratch on top will need some work. The case actually polished up very nice with only a few other small nicks.
My next step will be to work on the scratch until it disappears, then re-polish before moving to the rest of the phone.
Nice brown Dennis, what did you polish it with?
Dennis:
That scratch looks deep. Sometimes it is better not to push your luck too much.
Even with that scratch, I would display/use that phone. if you are unhappy with the results maybe we could work a deal?
that may be a moot offer though, as I have seen your work before... ( what scratch?) :)
It does look deep. I haven't tried to sand it yet. Dan, I just used Novus 2 and lots of elbow grease and my Ryobi hand-held buffer.
Steve, plus the fact that I already traded away my only other Mahogany. The pressure is on!
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1155.0
I just gave it the first hit with the bastard file. (Not really). I did use 220 grit wet sand paper. The scratch is all but gone. I am going to have to hit one small spot again. But that will have to wait for another day.
That scratch should be gone, this will be a nice looking phone.
Thanks McHeath. I'm having fun with it. I guess that's what the hobby is all about.
That's exactly what it's all about. And you must be pretty happy about that scratch, now. As I was going through this thread, I saw the scratch and my heart sank. Then a few posts down, it's practically gone!
It's shaping up really nicely. :)
Thanks Bingster. Now all I have to do is get rid of my sanding marks. I've been sitting on that phone for over a year and just never got to it. Now I'm looking forward to finishing it.
Mr. Markham, you have not failed to surprise me once again. I didn't care much for a brown phone but must admit, yours looks very nice.
Thank you Joshua. I'm not a big fan of anything brown either but since Mahogany is one of the colors of the rainbow of W.E. colors I had to have one. The more I cleaned it up the more I liked it. They are elegant when shined up nicely.
Dennis;
Hopeful;ly you haven't continued too far yet.
Maybe you could snap a photo of each step, and tell us what grit you used, and direction of sanding etc., right through the process.
D/P
Dan, I will do that. I just alternate direction. That way you can see if you have sanded away all the previous lines. I started here with 220 and went east-west. I'm going to work on it a little bit more until there is no visible sign of that initial gouge. Then I'll jump up to the next grit I have which is 400, then 800, then 1,000, then 2,000 and then I'll polish and re-evaluate. Since this isn't a very huge spot it won't take too long. The key is just making sure the previous marks are gone before moving up to the next level.
Here is the second step in the process. I used 400 grit to sand away the marks made by the 220 grit. Notice the original marks went left to right (east/west) and these are up and down (north and south). I won't post each step but you get the idea. I looked at the area under pretty high magnification. I don't see any evidence of the scratch or my previous marks. 800 grit is next.
I notice the area you're sanding is large enough that you can properly contour the area you're removing material from so the repair blends in unnoticeably with the rest of the body. This may seem like a no brainer, but it's quite tempting to start at the scratch & work outward. Cooler heads would pick a point away from the blemish & work to it, then past it-- as you have done here.
What invariably happens is that the area gets larger as you sand. Because you can't stop the back and forth motion exactly at the edge of the surface so you have to go beyond it. So I don't like to start out too large to repair a single blemish as I know the area will get bigger. Good point. In this case (no pun intended) surprisingly enough despite the depth of the original scratch the contour of the phone was not changed at all. I was careful to note that as I used the 220 grit. Looking at it from all angles I don't see any change in the appearance. I won't really know for sure until it's polished and buffed. I was careful not to flatten the width of the edge of the plastic on the circle---where the dial bezel sticks through. We shall see.
This may not be important, but do you use some form of backing for the sandpaper, like foam, or a block etc. ?
D/P
One other question, do you always start with 220, or do you judge starting point by flaw severity ?
D/P
No, I rarely start with 220. As you know that is very very rough grit. I try and get away with the highest number possible. I avoid sanding unless it just has to be done. For nicks and scratches that won't polish out. I like to start with 1,000 and then go 1,500 to 2,000...higher if you can find it. But I only get out the big gun (220) for something deep like this one.
I do have a small soft piece of foam rubber that I sometimes use to do corners and edges. It has a sharp edge and I can fold the paper around. But mostly I use my hand/fingers.
Couple of questions, how do you polish the dial plate w/o rubbing off the numbers and letters? Also, some recommendations for hand-held buffers.
Quote from: Brinybay
Also, some recommendations for hand-held buffers.
Good question about a buffer. What Riobi (or other buffer) and attachments/pads do folks recommend? I don't have a bench wheel and would like to keep it simple.
If you're talking about the Model 500 dial bezels, the numbers won't rub off UNLESS you have one of the old ones from 1950 that were an overlay. There was some discussion on this topic...look at page 5:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=327.60
Those made after 1950 are sandwiched plastic, meaning two pieces of the plastic sandwiched together. So if you sand away the top layer the letters/numbers will still exist.
As far as a hand held buffer, I really like the Ryobi 6 Inch Orbital Buffer. It is available at Home Depot and possibly other places.
I see it's $22.97 now. I bought my second one a few months ago and they were $19.99. The terry cloth replacement pads are available at WalMart in the automotive section for about $4-5 for a 3 or 4 pack---can't remember which. It's a great buffer and can get in small places, but doesn't do inside corners very well. It spins fast enough to create some friction when combined with the polish (I like Novus2) really does a nice job. The warming of the part on Bakelite caused by the friction of the turning pad also improves the shine.
(Edit: December 06, 2022 - The buffer is now $59.97 at Home Depot. Inflation in action: https://tinyurl.com/mwwp8a6y ).
Would buffing attachments for a standard electric drill work? Your buffer is about the same price as some drills I saw at HD, plus I could use the drill for other stuff as well.
Brinybay, that I do not know. I'm sure there are many methods that will work and some probably better. I just discovered the Ryobi and have stuck with it. You just have to be careful if there are too may RPM's it can burn the plastic. I ruined a soft plastic dial face on the bench wheel once. One has to be very careful with something moving too fast.
Thanks Dennis and Brinybay. The Ryobi palm held buffer does look like just the ticket. I would think that a drill with buffer attachment could be a a bit awkward to control and might also be harder to control the rpms. I'll go with the Ryobi. Shinny phones here we come. :)
If I remember correctly, the Ryobi came with a buffer cloth that ties with two strings. They ALWAYS come off. The replacement terry cloth covers that I mentioned that are available at WalMart have elastic that hold them on to the buffing head. I have washed mine over and over and they hold up pretty well. They're pretty cheap considering the use you'll get out of them.
That's great that we can wash and re-use the terry cloth elastic banded buffer pads a few times, Dennis. I was wondering about that because as you well know even with just hand rubbing with Novus 2, even after a good long warm soap bath and a rinse and dry, the buffing cloths with the Novus can still take off lots of gunk during the polishing, especially on bakelite. Can't wait to try the Ryobi. :)
I have finished the work on the top of the Mahogany cover. The gouge is nowhere to be found. I'm excited with how nice it turned out. With lots of Novus2 and elbow grease it is finished. I may perform an "operation" on a spot in the back but it's pretty good the way it is. The handset is next and then the dial bezel. Here's how it looks now. I know photos aren't like being there in person but it's pretty close. One can see their reflection in the shine.
With regard to the sandpaper...don't start at 220 unless you have to. Try a mid-grit first. If you can find higher grit than 2000 go up to it. Novus2 is readily available on eBay in 8oz bottles. I buy it in half gallon bottles that last me quite a while. I use a lot of it. I think I paid $28 for a half gallon bottle and I just refill my 8oz bottle when it's empty.
Dennis;
Have you tried other mediums for polishing, are you convinced Novus2 is tops ?
D/P
No. I have not tried other polishes. So I am open to other suggestions. I like the improvements I get using it. I have used #3 (grittier and more abrasive that #2) and it works well but I'm not convinced it's any better than #2. I like the fact that Novus #2 is a swirl/scratch remover and leaves a nice gloss shine.
Brasso works great but It takes alot of elbow grease.
Dennis;
Check this link...
http://tinyurl.com/l77yjr
D/P
Quote from: Dan/Panther on June 15, 2009, 02:38:45 AM
Brasso works great but It takes alot of elbow grease.
D/P
Regarding the "elbow grease" technique. Are you applying the buffing compound, be it Brasso or Novus or what have you, to a clean cloth then rubbing vigorously (aka "elbow grease"), or are you using a tool like a buffer?
Somebody mentioned trying car polish. Since that is readily available w/o having to have it shipped, I may try it on a phone I'm not to concerned about screwing up. Come to think of it, I got a fancy-schmancy package of some high-falutin auto cleaner and polishing stuff with my new truck. I think I'll go dig it out and try it on the phones.
When I apply polish I squirt a bit on the surface of the plastic. I may use a finger to smooth out the polish and then using a cotton (not acrylic) athletic sock rub the polish into the plastic as if the pores are absorbing the polish. I rub it in until the polish appears to be gone. During the rubbing (elbow grease) I can feel the part warming from the friction. Then without buffing the polish I put on more polish and spread it around and then get out the Ryobi. Once I have worked in all the polish I'll buff with an old soft cotton T-shirt (a new one works good too). Don't use anything with silk screened words or images---they'll scratch the plastic. I buff off the phone and inspect. If it's not how I like it I do it again. When it's done to my satisfaction I'll put on Novus #1 (spray mist--fine polish) or the Turtle Wax F21 Super Protectant with Sun Stop.
That is my method. Procedures and results may vary. I also think soft plastic and hard plastic give different results. I think hard plastic shines up quicker than soft.
dennis, what is the rpm on the ryobi tool? i ordered a wen rotary tool thru a prize program at work. i think it is more like a dremel tool. won't get it for 3 or 4 weeks. just wondering if this will do the trick or if i should go ahead & buy the ryobi. guess 22$ won't break the bank. ;) my first time posting here, but have been avidly reading for a couple of weeks. thanks to all for much good advice. finally got the courage to actually start working on some of the fones i have piled up. don't think i will ever reach your level of craftsmanship, tho. :o
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your first post. There's not much to getting successful results other than spending some time experimenting. I just checked the Ryobi listing on Home Depot's web site and it says the rpm is 4000. I don't know the speed of the bench grinder/buffer but the narrow pad spinning as fast as it does can burn the plastic as I've mentioned. I ruined a dial bezel once trying to use a little buffing tool on a Dremmel. It burned it immediately---actually gouging it. But with the Ryobi the surface of the pad is flat and does a nice job of rubbing in the polish. I don't think one can burn the plastic with this. I've never even come close. I have no knowledge on the Wen rotary tool. Again, there are many different products out there and you may discover something that works great. I have only tried a couple of buffers. I like the Ryobi because it's relatively cheap too. Eventually with enough use the foam pad that the terry cloth covers fit over will break down. It's cheaper to just replace the whole unit. It was $19.99 for a long time so they just raised their price. Maybe it's cheaper in-store. Good luck!
Welcome to the forum bwanna. As for car polish on phones, I've used TR-3 resin glaze with good success on my phones. It's pretty abrasive, and if you use it on a car you can take the paint off if you are too energetic, it's a rubbing compound not a wax. After using it on phone plastics I then apply a wax over the top, and I normally use old fashioned Turtle Wax.
I've even used the TR-3 after sanding a phone and it shines up nice and pretty.
I've finished the phone. In fact I spent the entire day today finishing it. There may be some details that I've discovered during reassembly that need to be addressed but for the most part it's finished. I'll post a couple photos here now but plan to make a complete album. I'll then post the link here. I took a ton of photos to show step-by-step reassembly of the #7 dial for those that may be interested. Here are a couple before and after shots. Notice that I put on a straight handset cord. Recently Steve Hilsz offered a couple of these up for sale to the ATCA/TCI members. This is an original 1955 cord that was never used. It is soft and pliable. The spade tips show no sign of ever having been screwed down. Today my voice traveled over the wires for the first time since it was made 54 years ago.
WOW!!! Amazingly nice job! And I love the straight cord and the fact that it is new is very cool.
just beautiful dennis! thank you for the welcome mcheath.
Beautiful Dennis, your skills are amazing. I noticed the color looks deeper and richer. Do you believe the polishing removed a "yellowed" layer and the dark brown underneath came out?
Thanks for the compliments. Dan, I did notice on the clear plungers that there was some yellowing. Although I didn't smell tobacco odors, I got the impression it had been in a smoky environment. When I hit those plungers with Novus the yellow color came right off. Perhaps the entire phone was covered with the same thing and I just didn't notice it. The plastic spent a great deal of time in warm water while I was sanding and I did use a ton of polish. It did bring out the nice color.
nicely done dennis!
Dennis;
I'm just curious, you've done an exceptional job in removing that scratch. I just wonder, if you ever decided to sell the phone, being that it is rather rare, would you feel ob;ligated to mention the scratch as being removed, or is that type repair completely acceptable. I hope this doesn't sound wrong, and if you want you can even PM the answer.
D/P
Inspirational work Dennis, thanks for sharing your expertise.
Lee
Wow, that turned out really nice. You definately deserve 2 thumbs up for that one!
Dan, that's a legitimate question. Pretty much I've told the world about the scratch since I posted it here. Although the world may not be watching, they have the capability.
If I were to sell the phone (which I won't, unless someone wants to give me $10,000,000---didn't think so) I would mention that the phone was refurbished and that I removed a scratch. I think it's different than repairing a crack or break which is different damage. A crack or break may reoccur. I don't think the scratch is going to come back. Will the removal of the scratch detract from the value? That only remains to be seen. If there was visual evidence of the scratch I'd say yes. Would the diminished value outweigh the added value of the straight handset cord and the rest of the original condition of the phone, I don't know. If this phone were set along side one exactly like it that didn't have a scratch removed that one would be more valuable.
So the quick answer to your question is yes, I would disclose a repair. With all the "rare" phones that cross paths on eBay, what has been done to them for the purpose of the sale? Only the seller and eventually the unsuspecting buyer know for sure.
My reputation for honesty is worth more to me than whatever price might be obtained from the sale of this or any phone.
By the way, I'll accept serious offers less than $10,000,000....but only slightly less. :)
Quote from: Dennis Markham
My reputation for honesty is worth more to me than whatever price might be obtained from the sale of this or any phone.
Honesty always seems the best policy and works best in the long run in all things in life IMO. As a seller I would always disclose any repair done to a phone including scratch repair. And as a buyer I appreciate honest sellers who fully and honestly describe their phones, and I'm then also more likely to be a repeat customer. Just my .02.
I put together a photo album on the Mahogany phone. I just took some fresh photos outside in subdued lighting to try and capture the actual color. These photos will be the first two on the album and at the end. A couple still appear dark. I probably need a nicer camera.
Warning, there are 50+ photos in the album. Bring a snack!
https://tinyurl.com/yaev64zg
Click on the 1st image to read the associated text....then toggle through each photo.
Dennis
A warning of 50 plus pictures? Ha! You could have 100, and it still wouldn't be enough for me! Beautiful job, Dennis!
Thanks. Now I can move on to the next one............or two.....or three..........
Looking good Dennis.
Excellent work Dennis, just like new.
D/P
Mmmmm....chocolate!
Quote from: Sargeguy
Mmmmm....chocolate!
;D I was going to mention Hershey bars but "mahogany" sounds so much more sophisticated... ;) Either way, it looks delicious, Dennis. :)
truly a masterpiece, dennis. thank you for sharing all the fotos w/ such informative captions!
Thank you everyone for your comments. It was a fun project.
Dennis, WOW! :o
Quote from: Dennis Markham on June 13, 2009, 06:44:53 PM
If I remember correctly, the Ryobi came with a buffer cloth that ties with two strings. They ALWAYS come off. The replacement terry cloth covers that I mentioned that are available at WalMart have elastic that hold them on to the buffing head. I have washed mine over and over and they hold up pretty well. They're pretty cheap considering the use you'll get out of them.
What do those pads look like? I just picked up a Ryobi buffer today from Home Depot, but the nearest Walmart is 20 miles from me. I'm sure there are other sources closer, but I need to know what they look like, or what they're called. I put in a search for "buffer" on Walmart's website and it brought up everything from digital cameras to baby diapers.
Here are a couple photos of the pads. The one on the left has the draw string. The one on the right has an elastic band that holds it on the buffer. The draw string cover is pretty much useless.
They may have these at places other than WalMart. I was given a tip that they had them and since there is one not far from me I tried there and got lucky. They come in a 3 pack I believe. I did find them in the automotive department with other car wax supplies.
Dennis,
I hope you won't mind my tacking this on, but your work on this brown phone has made me eager to do my own, and I have finally relocated it! I bought this mahogany 501 in 1993 (my best year ever for finding good phones), but didn't have a clue how to repair the damage then, so I have stored it all this time with the idea I would eventually figure it out. When you first started this thread, I hunted all over this house looking for it & came up empty handed. Finally, I decided I wasn't going to rest today until I had my hands on it, and, viola-- I found it in the attic! As you will see in the pictures, I have my work cut out for me. The handset cord is a sticky mangled mess & has break in the outer cover inside the first coil by the h/s. The worst damage, though, are two breaks at the back of the housing.The one at the lower center was caused by something catching between the base & housing directly in front of the mounting screw & popping the cover in an angular break. The second break is 1/2" to the left of the first, and arcs up and toward the corner over the line cord opening. See below.
Jester, that is great that you found that phone. That's great that you've had it all these years. That is an early party line phone. I see it has the 426A tube inside. That does look like a nasty break on the back but I think you should be able to fix it up so that it will be very nice. I'm glad that my Mahogany phone project was able to inspire you enough to find your phone and give refurbishing it a shot. Keep us posted on the progress. I'd love to see a better shot of the dial card. What is that exchange? Did the phone originate in your area??
Dennis,
The dial card exchange is WEstmore 5. According to TEN Project, the closest place to Beaumont that used that exchange was La Marque, a small town about 15 miles west of Galveston & close to 100 miles southwest of Beaumont. And it would make sense that the phone would be set up for party line service at that time.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on June 13, 2009, 06:44:53 PM
If I remember correctly, the Ryobi came with a buffer cloth that ties with two strings. They ALWAYS come off. The replacement terry cloth covers that I mentioned that are available at WalMart have elastic that hold them on to the buffing head. I have washed mine over and over and they hold up pretty well. They're pretty cheap considering the use you'll get out of them.
Are the ones you get at Walmart the same brand as these I got at Schuck's Auto Supply? The brand I'm using don't seem to hold up well, and I'm using the same buffer you are. The microfiber one ripped apart and the blue strands were everywhere after a short use, and the terry cloth ones became badly frayed and not much of the fuzzy part left after a couple of uses.
Also, what kind of polishing compound are you using? I looked through the posts and your photo album but didn't see mention of it. If I missed it, my apologies.
The terry cloth covers that I bought at WalMart are similar to the ones you show with the red polish on them. I only use Novus 2 polish with the Ryobi. No secret forumlas, just a lot of #2 and lots of buffing. I don't remember the brand name of the covers...whatever they had in the automotive department. The ones in your first photo do not look familiar. Next time I go past WalMart I'll stop and get a couple more (since I need some) and let you know the brand name.
Even those covers (with the elastic) will come off the spinning head of the buffer if no pressure is applied against anything. Eventually the rotating motion will cause them to spin away from the head.
The terry cloth/elastic buffing pads that I got are made by Autogeek: http://tinyurl.com/l6ncnz
And yes, the 6" Riobi buffer develops lots of centrifugal force and causes it to move around a lot and be a bit hard to control. It does the job though. I just wish they made a 4" buffer.
I also only use straight Novus 2.
Looks like we're all on the same page with the Novus and buffing pads. The price on Amazon with shipping is 30 cents more than I paid for 4 terry cloth pads at Schuck's. $6.99 for shipping?! What, are they coming on a slow boat from China?