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The Truth about Automatic Electric, Kellogg, Stromberg, and Non-WE phones

Started by Ampico66, March 29, 2010, 07:52:13 PM

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Ampico66

As I understand it, most of the US was part of the Bell System, whose phones were made by Western Electric (in Ohio?).  There was a Canadian subsidiary of Western Electric, called Northern Electric, which made similar phones for Canadian use. 

Kellogg, AE, Stromberg, and all other phone manufacturers made sets for private phone networks that were not part of the Bell System.  Such examples would be local small-town phone companies, large office buildings, and hotels to name a few.  These sets were owned by individuals and companies, where Bell System phones were only rented from the Bell System. 

On that note, any surviving Bell System phones were likely obtained illegally from employee theft or purchased from phone company employee stores, reconditioned, as novelty old model telephones.  Is that right?  There seem to be a lot of Bell System phones out there, far too many to have all been stolen.   I thought I heard that phone company employees were tasked with destroying old sets such that they couldn't be stolen and used without permission on the network. 

In conclusion, only WE sets would operate on the Bell System, which was almost completely the national standard, right? 

savageje

Before the divestiture of the Bell System in 1984, Bell customers were allowed to purchase the phones in their homes rather than continue to lease them.  I think it is fair to assume that the vast majority of surviving Bell System phones were legally purchased from the Bell System (and its successors) by subscribers.  Western Electric also supplied equipment to the independent telcos.  That equipment is typically branded only Western Electric rather than with the "BELL SYSTEM" or "BELL SYSTEM PROPERTY" markings.  

Virtually if not all Bell System equipment was made by Western Electric at various locations (Indianapolis being one of the major ones), whereas the independents used equipment made by Stromberg-Carlson, Automatic Electric, Kellogg, and others.

The Bell System tended to be focused in the major metro areas, whereas independent telcos typically covered smaller metro areas and rural areas.  Both the Bell System and the independents had large numbers of subscribers.  

Telephone equipment from manufacturers other than Western would work on the Bell System, but it was not approved for use there until the last few years before the Bell System was broken up. 

Jim Stettler

I was holding on to about 12 phones (for the Bell System), when the break-up came about. At that time I probably had 16-18 phones total.

I was willing to turn them in (to bell)  if they ever caught me. Luckily I wasn't caught.

Them were the days,
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

savageje

My company used to lease a space in what was once the Western Electric Indianapolis Works, and I was lucky enough to have to troubleshoot a problem with one of our DS1 circuits in the main telephone room for the plant.  One side of the room was stacked floor to ceiling with old documents, test equipment, and NOS 500 sets.  I imagine that they were all just abandoned when the plant closed.  I wish now that I had asked someone if I could have that stuff, but wasn't into collecting phones at the time.  I went back in there a few years later and it had all been cleared out.  Ah, what might have been.

AE_Collector

Quote from: Ampico66 on March 29, 2010, 07:52:13 PM
Kellogg, AE, Stromberg, and all other phone manufacturers made sets for private phone networks that were not part of the Bell System.  Such examples would be local small-town phone companies, large office buildings, and hotels to name a few.  These sets were owned by individuals and companies, where Bell System phones were only rented from the Bell System.  

In conclusion, only WE sets would operate on the Bell System, which was almost completely the national standard, right?  

Well, the Bell System did have the majority of the large city's cornered but the "Independants" had a lot more customers than what you are implying. There were large area's that weren't Bell System areas...such as California and Hawaii to name just a couple. Maybe the Bell system was in some of California, I'm really not sure but at one time AE had most of Los Angeles I believe.

GTE was the nations second largest Telco and of course GTE pretty much exclusively used Automatic Electric Equipment. Lets not forget that Automatic Electric "Invented" the Automatic (Dial) system.

Terry

Phonesrfun

Quote from: Ampico66 on March 29, 2010, 07:52:13 PM
In conclusion, only WE sets would operate on the Bell System, which was almost completely the national standard, right? 

Ampico:  Welcome to the forum.

As far as would a non-Bell phone work on a Bell System network and vice-versa, Yes, absolutely!  There was almost no difference between phones electrically.  The one exception was ringing on party lines.  The independants mostly used frequency sensitive ringers, whereas the Bell System used polarity ringing using a cold cathode tube to achieve essentially the same effect.  Both Bell and the independants also used straight line ringing on private and business lines.  When party lines went away, the straight line ringers are the ones that survived and that method of ringing is still used today.

Without exception, the independant phones like AE, Stromberg, Kellogg, and a plethora of others could still make and receive calls just fine.

Often times, the older independant-provided phones are sold on e-bay and still have frequency ringers, since they may have come from someone's attic, barn or what have you.  Those will need to have the ringers replaced if you desire to have them ring.

As to how they somehow got out of the system and into private hands, there is no way to tell.  The phone companies of yesteryear have all been sold, divested and merged out of existence, and there is no value to these instruments to any phone company today.  The only value these phones have is historical and collection.  So, I don't think the phone police are going to be knocking at anyone's door any time soon.

Again, welcome to the forum.  It's a great place.
-Bill G

AET

This was all very interesting.  And the GTE reference, reminded me.  Whenever I'm drinking out of my favorite coffee mug (a GTE one) she goes Gee, no GTE!  And all of the payphones around here have GTE phonebook jackets.
- Tom